Conjoint Gaming [Game On]
CG Main => Debate Forum => Topic started by: Reznov on July 24, 2012, 12:45:08 PM
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With the trial of Sandusky and the trial of James Holmes (aka "The Joker" aka the guy who shot up the movie theater in Colorado), do u think we as a nation should federally institute a death penalty for crimes such as mass rape (being serious), mass murder or other crimes that seem to have no redemption. I personally believe we should when it comes to things such as this, but I'm wondering what you guys think. Does your sense of morality come into play when it comes to taking a life to prevent atrocities and to set examples.
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The death penalty should never be for any crime besides murder.
It kind of depends on the motives/whether or not they can be fixed mentally. If it seems that they can, then maybe just some long time in prison. Otherwise they should be executed to prevent further death. It's not that they deserve to die, it's that it needs to be insured it won't happen again.
There is always life in prison, but that seems rather horrible. You're trapped in a cement cell for your entire life. I'd rather die then have life in prison. Maybe they could be presented a choice if it comes to one of those two.
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I hate the death penalty in any situation.. If we are willing to take someones life how are we any better then the one we are killing?
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Probably because we don't want them to take MORE lives, and death is the only foolproof permanent solution.
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How is life in prison not a solution? Meme9
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Prison isn't foolproof, they always have a chance of escaping. Also, why should the goverment have to support a person who is basically already dead to the world, for an upwards of 50 years?
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They don't but how does that make them better. Its just a murder for a murder.
and WHO THE FUCK is actually going to escape a maximum security prison there has been like one escape in like the past million years.
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The thing is, you keep saying it is murder to outright kill them, but how is that worse than keeping them in a cell for the rest of their life? Isn't that a longer, drawn out murder? Also, just Google prison escapes.
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Let me rephrase this. If they choose death penalty over life in prison then go right ahead and kill them. But i bet that 9 out of 10 convicts would choose life rather then death.
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You can't really say that you can think the same way as a convict, because most mass and serial killers have psychological issues.
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off-topic here:
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7kom6FeFU1rn6in8o1_1280.jpg)
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I think we need to look at how we define mental illness...
he was planning this for a while
christ he even went out and bought an assault rifle (I thought they were talking about a hunting rifle when they were first broadcasting it, not a fucking AR-15 IT'S A CIVILIAN M-16 FOR FUCKS SAKE
Yes I'm bringing gun control into this
we need it to be regulated and NOT ALLOW ASSAULT RIFLES INTO THE AVERAGE JOE'S HANDS
I know I said he was planning this for a bit and he was actually kind of smart, I mean how many people go out looking for assault rifles that they can LEGALLY buy and know where to get it? NEVER FUCKING MIND A GOOGLE SEARCH FOUND WHERE I CAN FIND ONE TO BUY RIGHT NOW IF I HAD 4k $$
But I blame the education system in America not trying to help those with the knowledge to be able to plan something like this use their minds for good.
BUT ON TOPIC: I believe you should get a punishment suitable for your crime; mass rape = life in prison because you scarred those victims for life, murder = death penalty unless provoked by other causes, and no I don't mean a bullshit excuse like Zimmerman I mean where it is clear there was a cause for the murder
Anything else for the death penalty is too much
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Alright, listen to Pancake. It's Philosophy time. *Puts on glasses*
I see the death penalty this way: Take this into perspective, your son was kidnapped. While in captivity, he was raped and killed by his captor. The man was finally taken into custody, but then had to go into a waiting period of a trial when everyone knew he did it. Take this that you're the father in that situation. The man that you're aware killed your son, has a possibility of getting away with it, and won't be punished for his crimes. What would your reaction be?
There was a situation like this where the father rushed in with a gun and shot his son's captor to death while he was in custody. When people begin to think that the Death penalty is barbaric, I face palm, because they aren't really thinking about the actual victim and their family in that position. They think about how it won't HELP the man, or TEACH him anything. Why in god's holy asshole would you want to HELP or TEACH anyone wrong from right when they've done something like that. That's the point when society needs to forget the violator and turn their backs on him.
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keeping him in prison for life costs money, and that money comes from honest tax payers, so yeah i think people who have done grave offenses against society(mass shootings, rape, etc.) should simply be put down, no way they can be reformed into someone good again.
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12 life sentences back to back for each of the people he killed
That's what he needs if it isn't death penalty
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I honestly think that whatever someone does to another person, should be done to them. Plain and simple.
You kill someone, we put you on deathrow. You steal something, (if its damaged/unable to return) we take equal assets to pay the person back what you owe. You rape someone? I believe they should jail/supervise these people for the rest of their lives.
Seems like people can get away with serious crimes lately, they just get a slap on the wrist or some time in prison. Maybe with good behavior, they can even be let back out into society. For people like this, I honestly believe there is no redemption. And maybe with harsher punishment, this shit will not be as COMMON as it is in the US.
By the way, did you see the new shooting in Connecticut?
Edit: http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/24/12919468-gunman-on-uconn-campus-commits-suicide?lite
The Connecticut shooting isn't to throw off the topic. It's to prove my point that this shit happens way too fucking often.
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I honestly think that whatever someone does to another person, should be done to them. Plain and simple.
You kill someone, we put you on deathrow. You steal something, (if its damaged/unable to return) we take equal assets to pay the person back what you owe. You rape someone? I believe they should jail/supervise these people for the rest of their lives.
Seems like people can get away with serious crimes lately, they just get a slap on the wrist or some time in prison. Maybe with good behavior, they can even be let back out into society. For people like this, I honestly believe there is no redemption. And maybe with harsher punishment, this shit will not be as COMMON as it is in the US.
By the way, did you see the new shooting in Connecticut?
I live in Connecticut and i havent even heard of a shooting here.
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The death penalty should be enforced, what is the difference between rotting in jail for the next 60 years of your life or being lethally injected? And Sandusky deserves to die after what he did to those kids. Nuff said.
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HEY GUYS I GOT THE PERFECT IDEA!
IF SOMEONE MURDERS OR ACCIDENTLY KILLS SOMEONE WE SHOULD KILL/MURDER THEM! WE WILL CALL IT THE DEATH PENALTY! WHAT DO YOU THINK?!?
It is basically an excuse to kill someone.
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HEY GUYS I GOT THE PERFECT IDEA!
IF SOMEONE MURDERS OR ACCIDENTLY KILLS SOMEONE WE SHOULD KILL/MURDER THEM! WE WILL CALL IT THE DEATH PENALTY! WHAT DO YOU THINK?!?
It is basically an excuse to kill someone.
If it's an accident, then it would be 2nd or 3rd degree, right? I am talking about 1st degree. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.
And please, don't bring up things like "WHAT IF HE WAS FRAMED?" People get framed now, and they go to prison for the rest of their lives to rot and be butt-shanked. Honestly, what is the difference from having no life in jail and having no life at all? Maybe having a harsher punishment will make more people be framed, but also the investigations and trials should be a little more detailed and fair..
Again, not to try and take this off topic, but enforcing stricter punishments, trying to improve the "system," and possibly fixing the root problem (IE - bad public schools, ghetto living areas, glamoring mass murder/suicide).. we wouldn't see this daily.
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HEY GUYS I GOT THE PERFECT IDEA!
IF SOMEONE MURDERS OR ACCIDENTLY KILLS SOMEONE WE SHOULD KILL/MURDER THEM! WE WILL CALL IT THE DEATH PENALTY! WHAT DO YOU THINK?!?
It is basically an excuse to kill someone.
If it's an accident, then it would be 2nd or 3rd degree, right? I am talking about 1st degree. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.
And please, don't bring up things like "WHAT IF HE WAS FRAMED?" People get framed now, and they go to prison for the rest of their lives to rot and be butt-shanked. Honestly, what is the difference from having no life in jail and having no life at all? Maybe having a harsher punishment will make more people be framed, but also the investigations and trials should be a little more detailed and fair..
Again, not to try and take this off topic, but enforcing stricter punishments, trying to improve the "system," and possibly fixing the root problem (IE - bad public schools, ghetto living areas, glamoring mass murder/suicide).. we wouldn't see this daily.
Executing a Murderer is fighting fire with fire, someone murders so murder the murderer. And I believe a better way would be Life in prison instead of Execution. Since it makes those people eventually regret murdering someone, where as they most likely wont feel regret till they are strapped down about to be executed.
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Kill em. We spend so much money on making the death penalty humane and all this bull. If someone is put on death row they should just be taken to a ditch and shot or hanged. I think the Human Race is begin to put too much value on life. We lose 12 people to a mass murder, yet we won't take the one that took those lives? That just seems unjust to me.
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Kill em. We spend so much money on making the death penalty humane and all this bull. If someone is put on death row they should just be taken to a ditch and shot or hanged. I think the Human Race is begin to put too much value on life. We lose 12 people to a mass murder, yet we won't take the one that took those lives? That just seems unjust to me.
So you would rather have the one that painfully killed those 12 to have a quick and painless death compaired to a slow and Agonizing Death? 'Cause rotting in a prison is pretty damn bad.
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Kill em. We spend so much money on making the death penalty humane and all this bull. If someone is put on death row they should just be taken to a ditch and shot or hanged. I think the Human Race is begin to put too much value on life. We lose 12 people to a mass murder, yet we won't take the one that took those lives? That just seems unjust to me.
^ This is exactly what I am talking about.
Most of the murders are planned before hand (picking the target, buying the guns, location/time, how, ect.). During this, they have all that time to rethink -- Why am I doing this? Is it worth ending another life because of how I feel in this moment?
Why does someone like this deserve to stay alive when the innocent is dead in the ground? Not all people are completely innocent, believe me, but I don't feel that someone deserves to die because of how they wronged another person (be it money or love, criminal charges, like rape and abduction, are another matter).
Why should I give money to the government, so they can house, clothe, and feed the person who killed my neighbors and family?
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Kill em. We spend so much money on making the death penalty humane and all this bull. If someone is put on death row they should just be taken to a ditch and shot or hanged. I think the Human Race is begin to put too much value on life. We lose 12 people to a mass murder, yet we won't take the one that took those lives? That just seems unjust to me.
^ This is exactly what I am talking about.
Most of the murders are planned before hand (picking the target, buying the guns, location/time, how, ect.). During this, they have all that time to rethink -- Why am I doing this? Is it worth ending another life because of how I feel in this moment?
Why does someone like this deserve to stay alive when the innocent is dead in the ground? Not all people are completely innocent, believe me, but I don't feel that someone deserves to die because of how they wronged another person (be it money or love, criminal charges, like rape and abduction, are another matter).
Why should I give money to the government, so they can house, clothe, and feed the person who killed my neighbors and family?
I see your point. And Now I agree with you. Somewhat. I now feel like we should painfully torture murderers, and right before they think we are letting the go slice open their wrists and force them to walk in front of Prisoners till he drops dead from blood loss.
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HEY GUYS I GOT THE PERFECT IDEA!
IF SOMEONE MURDERS OR ACCIDENTLY KILLS SOMEONE WE SHOULD KILL/MURDER THEM! WE WILL CALL IT THE DEATH PENALTY! WHAT DO YOU THINK?!?
It is basically an excuse to kill someone.
...
Murder is planning and killing someone. An accident isn't murder. Unplanned killing is manslaughter, also not murder.
When the word murder is used, we're talking about the killing with forethought and planning involved. In this case it was a bit more then murder, it was a massacre.
Also, I'm gonna be blunt here. If someone kills that many people with those intentions, they probably should be killed. It's karma. They knew what would happen. Not to mention the world is overpopulated. The victims didn't deserve to die, but if the guilty is dead we have one less looney to deal with.
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I want to agree with you to force them to an agonizing death.. but that is taking it too far, IMO. I realize that murderers do deserve this treatment, but it's extremely barbaric and inhumane.
I feel like we need it only to stop the murders and curve crimes, not to take out aggression on another human being, regardless of what they've done. The people in charge of this, who voted for this, who want this.. would be just as bad as the criminal, themselves.
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Bloody hell, Wish Britain got the death penalty again, Too many people get away with murder and get out in no time, Sickens me to see innocent people get hurt mentally and physically, and the aggressors get off Scott-free, People should not get away with murder and be released in less time then someone arrested from a Drugs-bust, Murder should be treated the same as treason, Innocent people die every day to murdering scum..
(Just FYI, I'm all pro for "do unto others as they do unto you", You hurt someone, You should have the same thing happen to you..)
Sorry, now I've gotten a little dark, Just had some bad experiences with Close friends being hurt by total strangers, That's why I fight to protect..
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well, isnt a life sentence a death penalty? It depends on the severity, if it was a mass murder of 12 people, they should get a life sentence, with no bail, and have to suffer. if it was 1-4 murders, then they should be killed immediatly. dont see any other way to make it simple...
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keeping him in prison for life costs money, and that money comes from honest tax payers, so yeah i think people who have done grave offenses against society(mass shootings, rape, etc.) should simply be put down, no way they can be reformed into someone good again.
Oh my god. Hair Slut I love you.
Hair Sluts the only one who isn't being retarded.
Do you guys forgot this?
Death or Life In Prison. you all Keep saying how awesome it is to keep then in jail, but you forget that cost money.
Now you have to also remember (not in America) that life in Prison can be 25 years, depending on the country. It's 90 something in America I believe. Which is fine for America I suppose. Jails/Prison are VERY expensive to run and having so many of them is quit a burden.
I'm unsure of my opinion and it's defiantly not something you can decide like a snap of the finger but interesting none the less.
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...Hair Sluts the only one who isn't being retarded.
Do you guys forgot this?...
Oh my god I feel ashamed for laughing so hard xD
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...Hair Sluts the only one who isn't being retarded.
Do you guys forgot this?...
Oh my god I feel ashamed for laughing so hard xD
Ok Ok, poor choice of wording and sentence structure. I know that was a epic fail, but you know what I was going for lol.
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Death to the rapists and Anders Behring Breivik ! quagmire
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Using money to keep them alive as a life sentence probably wouldn't be an issue too much if the jails weren't overcrowded with stoners and petty thieves in jail for years.
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Oh my god. Hair Slut I love you.
Hair Sluts the only one who isn't being retarded.
Do you guys forgot this?
Death or Life In Prison. you all Keep saying how awesome it is to keep then in jail, but you forget that cost money.
Now you have to also remember (not in America) that life in Prison can be 25 years, depending on the country. It's 90 something in America I believe. Which is fine for America I suppose. Jails/Prison are VERY expensive to run and having so many of them is quit a burden.
I'm unsure of my opinion and it's defiantly not something you can decide like a snap of the finger but interesting none the less.
Well there's more to it than just the fact that it costs money Inject.
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Take in mind that an average person spends 15 years on death row in prison before being executed. Around a quarter of people put on death row die from natural causes.
My source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_row) is wiki but it's all cited.
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why don't we take all the crazy people and deport them to a country that we are going to invade, give them their own rifle and let them do what they want. No money wasted on war and no lifes of value lost.
troll solution.
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I'd get behind the idea of a penal legion. It's probably a dumb idea but still
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except penal legions would imply theyre away from normal people, and another continent just isnt enough for a criminal to not want to run away.
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Oh my god. Hair Slut I love you.
Hair Sluts the only one who isn't being retarded.
Do you guys forgot this?
Death or Life In Prison. you all Keep saying how awesome it is to keep then in jail, but you forget that cost money.
Now you have to also remember (not in America) that life in Prison can be 25 years, depending on the country. It's 90 something in America I believe. Which is fine for America I suppose. Jails/Prison are VERY expensive to run and having so many of them is quit a burden.
I'm unsure of my opinion and it's defiantly not something you can decide like a snap of the finger but interesting none the less.
Well there's more to it than just the fact that it costs money Inject.
Obviously, however that can't be ignored as a factor.
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On average its something over 30,000 dollars to keep people in prison. Also Inject life in prison is defined by the judge, usually the minimum is 15 I believe, and its up to the judge after that minimum for what parole rights you have, so you could be paroled after 15 years, or 20 years, or never, depending on what you did
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On average its something over 30,000 dollars to keep people in prison. Also Inject life in prison is defined by the judge, usually the minimum is 15 I believe, and its up to the judge after that minimum for what parole rights you have, so you could be paroled after 15 years, or 20 years, or never, depending on what you did
or 90
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On average its something over 30,000 dollars to keep people in prison. Also Inject life in prison is defined by the judge, usually the minimum is 15 I believe, and its up to the judge after that minimum for what parole rights you have, so you could be paroled after 15 years, or 20 years, or never, depending on what you did
or 90
That's the point is it not? Life can be 15 years, or it can be Jerry Sandusky aka 250 years
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keeping him in prison for life costs money, and that money comes from honest tax payers, so yeah i think people who have done grave offenses against society(mass shootings, rape, etc.) should simply be put down, no way they can be reformed into someone good again.
Oh my god. Hair Slut I love you.
Hair Sluts the only one who isn't being retarded.
Do you guys forgot this?
Death or Life In Prison. you all Keep saying how awesome it is to keep then in jail, but you forget that cost money.
Now you have to also remember (not in America) that life in Prison can be 25 years, depending on the country. It's 90 something in America I believe. Which is fine for America I suppose. Jails/Prison are VERY expensive to run and having so many of them is quit a burden.
I'm unsure of my opinion and it's defiantly not something you can decide like a snap of the finger but interesting none the less.
the thing is it actually costs more for the death sentence in america, when a person is sentenced to death they get 4 or 5 appeals. those appeals cost more than keeping a person in prison for 100 years by a long shot. at least in america i don't know government procedure in other countries
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The government pays for the appeals? Or the convicted? Because I don't give a shit if they have to pay.
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and who pays for the government to not come and throw THEM in jail pancake?
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The government pays for the appeals? Or the convicted? Because I don't give a shit if they have to pay.
You know where the governments money is *SUPPOSED* to come from, right?
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The fix to costly death sentences: Public Hangings
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The fix to costly death sentences: Public Hangings
I have a cheaper solution: Firing squad
More humane as well
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The fix to costly death sentences: Public Hangings
I have a cheaper solution: Firing squad
More humane as well
We could use the idea I thought of a while back. We put all the prisoners in an area and we send in our fresh military recruits in for life target fire arms training. I mean it trains our soldiers and it gets rid of a problem so we are doing good in two ways!
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LETS MAKE ARKHAM CITY.
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The government pays for the appeals? Or the convicted? Because I don't give a shit if they have to pay.
the government does, and if the convicted does not have a lawyer they government has to pay for that too.
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To be honest I didn't expect any1 here to remain 100% unbiased because it is fairly hard to do but when we talk about the death penalty, life in prison and similar. It is important to remember that these are human beings we are talking about.
A human being has hopes, dreams and feelings, for a human being to flip out and abandon their hopes and dreams (like in the case of murder and similar) there is often a very strong cause for this happening.
Harasment, being ignored, being scorned for everything or just plain feeling like there is nothing out there for you except people making your life worse.
My point is they still have those dreams and hopes, which means they can still be rehabilitated they can still be treated as human beings and end up in terms becoming just another friendly face.
Something most countries need to understand is that torment normally does not help some1 to become a better person it only creates rage and makes them think of more things they can do to hurt the people who have aflicted this torment upon them. (the torment being to live in those aweful conditions you guys have in prisons)
I read some place that if you were to judge your prisons acording to if they broke the conventions of how to treat war criminals that you broke those conventions on many many occations. Basically you treat your own people worse than you are allowed to treat terrorists how does that make you feel about your system? does that make you feel like if it is truly their fault for returning to the prison, to hate your system, to hate your people and continue killing?
In Norway our prison system may seem to cosy but we do that because all a prison needs to be is a place to reeducate people about how life actually works. Some people need proper guidance into how a human being is suposed to act.
In Norway we have cases of killers who've had no remorse for their actions turned into the friendliest people you can find on the street, we have murderers that would no longer hurt a fly.
So no, I do not believe in the death penalty in most cases there is but 1 case I believe the death penalty should even be considered and that is when a person claims war on a country by stating other beliefs and then killing innocent people of another opinion. Basically if some1 declares war he deserves to get killed, because that is the way of war.
I know that may seem like a cop out way for me to explain why I only wish for Breivik to die, a person who did this in my country, but trust me it is not. In Breiviks case he openly declared war on the norwegian system claiming that others would follow suit and at our doors we would have war.
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As Jorgen stated, there is no way to have an unbiased discussion about how our system works here in the US.
Frankly, I find the death penalty fair in some cases and unfair in most. I support the death penalty 100% though as I feel as though an Eye for an Eye leaves the whole world cowering in fear of losing their sight. I feel as though if one is to take a life of another, premeditated, including foul play, mutilation, and rape with more than one victim, the inmate should be sentenced to death. One does not rehabilitate themselves after destroying many peoples lives. Not just the victim, but the victim's family too. People don't understand that when you lose a family member to such violent crimes, you feel nothing but enraging anger and pure emotion. It's difficult and I understand that.
While I do agree that SOME people can be rehabilitated, I also have to state that there are helpless cases. It's kind of like trying to scream at a Christian for being Christian... or throwing pork at a Muslim. It's stupid, you're not going anywhere with it, and you're wasting your own resources and time. When the people commit the crimes that they do, they don't expect to go to jail and pay for what they did. They do it for their own personal satisfaction most of the time. It's somewhat sickening.
Honestly, this doesn't come to a surprise to me. However, there were many cases where soldiers treated the terrorists with utmost disrespect. Pissed on them, stripped them naked, made them climb ontop of one another, and stupid shit like that. Humans are disgusting creatures. Pure and simple.
It's not so much that they can be rehabilitated, it's what does it take to rehabilitate them? Did you know that if we removed our entire government system in the United States, we'd still never be able to pay off yearly debts? In fact... I think it's something like the US makes a total of 2.7 billion dollars a year, but needs to also spend 4.5 billion a year just to do what we're doing... And if we cut out our government, we'd still only make 3.6 billion a year or something along those lines. We're currently following Greece's footsteps. We cannot survive for that much longer.
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we have an island in Norway dedicated to the worst of the worst which is basically heaven to be honest, it is a location where they run a farm and those that show the best improvement are trusted so far as to being sent without supervision to the nearest city to buy supplies. We have yet to have any1 run away and flip shit.
I mean we live in two completely different worlds to be honest, in Norway we see people who have gone from what you describe to being the nicest people you would meet, but you are raised hearing stories about people coming out and never breaking free just keep doing the same things they did before like if they were insane.
I understand the logic of vengance when it comes to families who have lost loved ones, and in Norway there are many stories of this coming into play and going really badly... I mean vengance is a very base feeling in a human so this is the biggest flaw in our system =/
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we have an island in Norway dedicated to the worst of the worst which is basically heaven to be honest, it is a location where they run a farm and those that show the best improvement are trusted so far as to being sent without supervision to the nearest city to buy supplies. We have yet to have any1 run away and flip shit.
I mean we live in two completely different worlds to be honest, in Norway we see people who have gone from what you describe to being the nicest people you would meet, but you are raised hearing stories about people coming out and never breaking free just keep doing the same things they did before like if they were insane.
I understand the logic of vengance when it comes to families who have lost loved ones, and in Norway there are many stories of this coming into play and going really badly... I mean vengance is a very base feeling in a human so this is the biggest flaw in our system =/
What does the farm do for the country? Is it just for the island and for helping to rehabilitate them or is it sold in stores?
I personally always found it odd that we kept criminals confined in small places not doing anything, when they could easily work on something like a farm.
I don't understand why they shouldn't work something to put back into society..
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The basic idea of a death penalty, was to use the severe act of death by a nasty way, hanging or guillotine, for example, to prevent the next fellow from doing the same act.
The theory was, if we take this guy's life, the next guy will think twice.
Did it work? Well? Did it?
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The basic idea of a death penalty, was to use the severe act of death by a nasty way, hanging or guillotine, for example, to prevent the next fellow from doing the same act.
The theory was, if we take this guy's life, the next guy will think twice.
Did it work? Well? Did it?
QFT
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The basic idea of a death penalty, was to use the severe act of death by a nasty way, hanging or guillotine, for example, to prevent the next fellow from doing the same act.
The theory was, if we take this guy's life, the next guy will think twice.
Did it work? Well? Did it?
Like I said, people who commit the crimes don't think of the consequences, just the personal pleasure or gain from it.
Cadaver, we all love you, but we all know the only reason why you survived the 18th and 19th century was because you were afraid of the death penalty.
(Iloveyou)
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I fear little.
And Who says I survived?
What is my name again?
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I fear little.
And Who says I survived?
What is my name again?
Touche.. That is all.
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63 FUCKIGN POSTS JESUS CHRIST I HAVENT BEEN ON THE FORUMS FOR LIKE 5 DAYS JESUS! Meme6
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63 FUCKIGN POSTS JESUS CHRIST I HAVENT BEEN ON THE FORUMS FOR LIKE 5 DAYS JESUS! Meme6
I went on a week vacation without internet (i survived because there was an Arcade). I come back and i have 3 pages of unread topics.
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Thank you jorgen after reading all this pro Death stuff its nice to see someone post against the death penalty. I personally don't think the death penalty should be used no matter how horrible the crime nor should they be convicted of life in prison. People often times confuse the justice system as a tool for revenge against people that have wronged others ,but its called the justice system for a reason.
Also the argument that the death penalty saves money isn't true at all look it up for yourselves.
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Thank you jorgen after reading all this pro Death stuff its nice to see someone post against the death penalty. I personally don't think the death penalty should be used no matter how horrible the crime nor should they be convicted of life in prison. People often times confuse the justice system as a tool for revenge against people that have wronged others ,but its called the justice system for a reason.
Also the argument that the death penalty saves money isn't true at all look it up for yourselves.
It would have to depend.
If you paying to keep in inmate in jail for 60 years then yes death is cheaper and if you think otherwise your insane.
I'm not saying because something can cost less makes it a better option but money defiantly is an issue when it comes to jails/prisons.
It cost a lot of money to house all those prisoners which is a major problem.
However, no justice system or legal system is perfect and none are particularly great in my opinion. At least not the American one (I would include Canada's in that).
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Thank you jorgen after reading all this pro Death stuff its nice to see someone post against the death penalty. I personally don't think the death penalty should be used no matter how horrible the crime nor should they be convicted of life in prison. People often times confuse the justice system as a tool for revenge against people that have wronged others ,but its called the justice system for a reason.
Also the argument that the death penalty saves money isn't true at all look it up for yourselves.
It would have to depend.
If you paying to keep in inmate in jail for 60 years then yes death is cheaper and if you think otherwise your insane.
I'm not saying because something can cost less makes it a better option but money defiantly is an issue when it comes to jails/prisons.
It cost a lot of money to house all those prisoners which is a major problem.
However, no justice system or legal system is perfect and none are particularly great in my opinion. At least not the American one (I would include Canada's in that).
There is a reason I only devoted a small part of my statement to the issue of cost and that's because it isn't and shouldn't be the main argument for the death penalty. Saying that we should kill prisoners to save money is getting uncomfortably close to social Darwinism. These are peoples lives we are talking about and they are worth more than any piece of paper ever will be.
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Social Darwinism? :l What?
I personally don't think the death penalty should be used no matter how horrible the crime nor should they be convicted of life in prison.
Then what do you think?
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Social Darwinism? :l What?
I personally don't think the death penalty should be used no matter how horrible the crime nor should they be convicted of life in prison.
Then what do you think?
I laid out pretty well what I think, we should always give people the possibility of redemption. This idea that people should die for their actions or be in a cage for the rest of their lives is barbaric.
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Why is it barbaric? It one thing to say that, but tell me how it is. Otherwise your words will just ring hollow to me.
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It's barbaric to murder people too. And for the protection of citizens those people must be removed from society as to insure the safety of others, or at least thats the basic reason behind it.
Also theirs an old CollageHumor video that would fit AWESOMELY here but I can't find it.
I can see you like Norway's system. Which yeah it defiantly has things over the American one. But I don't agree with all of their ideas and it isn't perfect either.
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Thank you jorgen after reading all this pro Death stuff its nice to see someone post against the death penalty.
Take in mind that an average person spends 15 years on death row in prison before being executed. Around a quarter of people put on death row die from natural causes.
My source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_row) is wiki but it's all cited.
Feels bad man Meme12
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Well your comment really isn't for or against, just stating a fact.
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the question is not if it is perfect but if it is better...
perfection is impossible one can only strive to be better
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the question is not if it is perfect but if it is better...
perfection is impossible one can only strive to be better
but its not just unperfect it's very lacking.
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the question is not if it is perfect but if it is better...
perfection is impossible one can only strive to be better
but its not just unperfect it's very lacking.
Elaborate -.-
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the question is not if it is perfect but if it is better...
perfection is impossible one can only strive to be better
but its not just unperfect it's very lacking.
Elaborate -.-
Sorry but neither system is great.
Your system does have some great plus and fix's to ours but still neither one is a great solution.
Sorry Mr. Nationalist :/
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the question is not if it is perfect but if it is better...
perfection is impossible one can only strive to be better
but its not just unperfect it's very lacking.
Elaborate -.-
Sorry but neither system is great.
Your system does have some great plus and fix's to ours but still neither one is a great solution.
Sorry Mr. Nationalist :/
thank you for that unecesary personal attack. What I said was not nationalist merely I was hinting that this is a debate thread and not a thread for saying your system is flawed.
I know just as every1 else that there is flaws in either system I am not a fool... But saying your system is very lacking requires substansiell back up of that opinion. If not a debate thread would literally be. person A: I like burger king Person B: I like mcdonalds, the end.
So if you want to call names for some1 trying to gather input as to why your views are as they are then go ahead, but it only makes you seem like a twat.
just like this makes me look like a twat that is mad, allthouh I am not.
Back to the fucking topic now, the death penalty works against itself to be honest. You wish to kill for some1 who was killed, does now suddenly 2 wrongs make 1 right? Have your values suddenly changed? If the story is about death then you no longer care about right? just vengence?
It is probably hard for you guys to see where I am coming from you have never experienced my system, you have only seen that your media talks about your system as justice. The same could be said about my system without a doubt, however the systems statistically don't really match. in Norway the return rate normally is around 35-43% and the return rates in America has acording to what I see been around 50-70% which is higher. Both systems are dealing with something terible and when you do it is always hard to deal with it, because it will never be perfect or even close to it.
Just thougth I'd end my thougts with how parenting is now vs before, before smacking your child was completely normal now it is tabu. Same shit really different degree of seriousness but same thing.
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the question is not if it is perfect but if it is better...
perfection is impossible one can only strive to be better
but its not just unperfect it's very lacking.
Elaborate -.-
Sorry but neither system is great.
Your system does have some great plus and fix's to ours but still neither one is a great solution.
Sorry Mr. Nationalist :/
thank you for that unecesary personal attack. What I said was not nationalist merely I was hinting that this is a debate thread and not a thread for saying your system is flawed.
I know just as every1 else that there is flaws in either system I am not a fool... But saying your system is very lacking requires substansiell back up of that opinion. If not a debate thread would literally be. person A: I like burger king Person B: I like mcdonalds, the end.
So if you want to call names for some1 trying to gather input as to why your views are as they are then go ahead, but it only makes you seem like a twat.
just like this makes me look like a twat that is mad, allthouh I am not.
Back to the fucking topic now, the death penalty works against itself to be honest. You wish to kill for some1 who was killed, does now suddenly 2 wrongs make 1 right? Have your values suddenly changed? If the story is about death then you no longer care about right? just vengence?
It is probably hard for you guys to see where I am coming from you have never experienced my system, you have only seen that your media talks about your system as justice. The same could be said about my system without a doubt, however the systems statistically don't really match. in Norway the return rate normally is around 35-43% and the return rates in America has acording to what I see been around 50-70% which is higher. Both systems are dealing with something terible and when you do it is always hard to deal with it, because it will never be perfect or even close to it.
Just thougth I'd end my thougts with how parenting is now vs before, before smacking your child was completely normal now it is tabu. Same shit really different degree of seriousness but same thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q
Jack... ahgr I mean Jorgen LOL, That wasn't a personal attack. And wasn't related to what you said in the thread, the nationalist thing was based on your personality and was a joke. It's funny because you just said on ventrilo that people take things to seriously on the forums and feel attacked, but anyways.
I'm just simply saying that having our prison system changed to Norwegian isn't an answer to our problems, it's just another system that could use work. I don't think their is a good jail system. I never said I hated yours it has great things about it that we could really learn from and implement in ours but to steal it all entirely isn't the solution their both flawed and very poor in terms of how good they could be.
And in my original post I wasn't even referring to yours to begin with.
I'm not calling you names Jorgen, calm down, that was just a little joke because of your personality, I know your not a nationalist relax. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
It's sort of like when someone says I hate Juice and then they say "OK HITLER" It's called a joke. Or an exaggeration.
I'm not a twat and I don't see how calling someone else names because they called you something is helpful to the situation, it just escalates things and is nothing but bad for the thread and situation. But thanks for calling me a twat, even though I'm not being one.
and Back to your back on topic area.
I don't think anyone who's for the death penalty is for it for revenge, they probably prefer it because it gets dangerous people off the streets and out of society and quickly and cheaply (not saying that's true or that i agree just that I believe that's what they meant).
I'm not really blinded by main stream media as I do not partake in watching it since it's just full of over hyped scare tactics to attract and control viewers essentially. It's just utter crap and is good for no one. Not just Fox either, CNN is just as bad and people seem to forget that (or at least it is now).
Now you also forget about gun laws, given that crimes can be put on a more dangerious level and may be easier to commit can or could be reason towards higher return rates given that commiting dangerious crimes is much easier then in Norway. Getting your hands on Illigal or Legal weapons isn't insainly difficult. Given that Norways gun laws differ could contribute to less highly avergated volice and in turn making the return rates lower because of this. Not sure if you get what I ment by that and if you didn't I understand it was a crappy paragraph and I don't have time to correct it.
And I defiantly agree that rehabilitation should always at least be attempted. And that a good system for that is needed in America however it isn't always a solution and won't prevent some things that need to be dealt with differently.
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the question is not if it is perfect but if it is better...
perfection is impossible one can only strive to be better
but its not just unperfect it's very lacking.
Elaborate -.-
Sorry but neither system is great.
Your system does have some great plus and fix's to ours but still neither one is a great solution.
Sorry Mr. Nationalist :/
thank you for that unecesary personal attack. What I said was not nationalist merely I was hinting that this is a debate thread and not a thread for saying your system is flawed.
I know just as every1 else that there is flaws in either system I am not a fool... But saying your system is very lacking requires substansiell back up of that opinion. If not a debate thread would literally be. person A: I like burger king Person B: I like mcdonalds, the end.
So if you want to call names for some1 trying to gather input as to why your views are as they are then go ahead, but it only makes you seem like a twat.
just like this makes me look like a twat that is mad, allthouh I am not.
Back to the fucking topic now, the death penalty works against itself to be honest. You wish to kill for some1 who was killed, does now suddenly 2 wrongs make 1 right? Have your values suddenly changed? If the story is about death then you no longer care about right? just vengence?
It is probably hard for you guys to see where I am coming from you have never experienced my system, you have only seen that your media talks about your system as justice. The same could be said about my system without a doubt, however the systems statistically don't really match. in Norway the return rate normally is around 35-43% and the return rates in America has acording to what I see been around 50-70% which is higher. Both systems are dealing with something terible and when you do it is always hard to deal with it, because it will never be perfect or even close to it.
Just thougth I'd end my thougts with how parenting is now vs before, before smacking your child was completely normal now it is tabu. Same shit really different degree of seriousness but same thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q
Jack... ahgr I mean Jorgen LOL, That wasn't a personal attack. And wasn't related to what you said in the thread, the nationalist thing was based on your personality and was a joke. It's funny because you just said on ventrilo that people take things to seriously on the forums and feel attacked, but anyways.
I'm just simply saying that having our prison system changed to Norwegian isn't an answer to our problems, it's just another system that could use work. I don't think their is a good jail system. I never said I hated yours it has great things about it that we could really learn from and implement in ours but to steal it all entirely isn't the solution their both flawed and very poor in terms of how good they could be.
And in my original post I wasn't even referring to yours to begin with.
I'm not calling you names Jorgen, calm down, that was just a little joke because of your personality, I know your not a nationalist relax. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
It's sort of like when someone says I hate Juice and then they say "OK HITLER" It's called a joke. Or an exaggeration.
I'm not a twat and I don't see how calling someone else names because they called you something is helpful to the situation, it just escalates things and is nothing but bad for the thread and situation. But thanks for calling me a twat, even though I'm not being one.
and Back to your back on topic area.
I don't think anyone who's for the death penalty is for it for revenge, they probably prefer it because it gets dangerous people off the streets and out of society and quickly and cheaply (not saying that's true or that i agree just that I believe that's what they meant).
I'm not really blinded by main stream media as I do not partake in watching it since it's just full of over hyped scare tactics to attract and control viewers essentially. It's just utter crap and is good for no one. Not just Fox either, CNN is just as bad and people seem to forget that (or at least it is now).
Now you also forget about gun laws, given that crimes can be put on a more dangerious level and may be easier to commit can or could be reason towards higher return rates given that commiting dangerious crimes is much easier then in Norway. Getting your hands on Illigal or Legal weapons isn't insainly difficult. Given that Norways gun laws differ could contribute to less highly avergated volice and in turn making the return rates lower because of this. Not sure if you get what I ment by that and if you didn't I understand it was a crappy paragraph and I don't have time to correct it.
And I defiantly agree that rehabilitation should always at least be attempted. And that a good system for that is needed in America however it isn't always a solution and won't prevent some things that need to be dealt with differently.
just though i'd atleast ad a paragraph to answear the first portion, I did not take it personally and I am not mad at you. I tried showing that this is a debate thread name calling and jokes are rarely a side of it, because if you add that sort of stuff it gets very easily heated.
Gun control could contribute to lower return rates, but only in certain crimes. We still have lower return rates from mugging, grand theft auto and larceny neither of which genrally directly requires a gun.
but hey I see your point. However is that not a good thing though?
Also I am not saying the system would be the answear to your system because it isn't, America has dug such a giant hole for it self that it would be impossible to pay for such a fix up. However saying they are both very lacking is wrong, they are both lacking yes but adding very just makes it plane wrong. A system has never been as good as it is now pretty much, so in our limited understanding as human beings it is still as close to perfect as we managed to muster up.
on the whole you can't see where I am coming from it doesn't matter if you don't see the news, your social life does not consist of talking to me about what happens here with the people who have gone to jail. You hear from every form of media about your own system, bare in mind media is any form of storage or spreading of information.
Every person in the world has heard this expression an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Losing another human being is a horrific experience and an awfull situation but sorry to say, but he is not getting justice no matter what you do killing that other man is not going to bring him back. Also the death sentence is more likely to be a thing if you kill a person off higher ranking how is that fair? I thought every human being was equal in such a question...
No1 here is saying their system is perfect or the ultimate answear we merely conflict in if we think one or the other system has more redeeming factors about it. I personally think our system should be split in 2, first time offenders can go to the prisons we have now maybe even 2nd time offenders but everything after that should go to a typical American prison. fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.
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Couldn't disagree more jorgen three strike laws sound good on paper ,but in reality they send people to prison for otherwise petty offenses. Adding a number to anything doesn't make it fair and incarceration should depend on the specific situation instead of some random number.
As for the system I think we should have its pretty untested waters so its hard to say which system is best and here in america its going to take us quite a long time to test said water. I do however think in the meantime we should get rid of the death penalty completely and work on getting rid of life sentence with no chance of parole.
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People go to jail for petty reasons, but they don't get the death penalty for petty reasons.
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I think the Death Penalty should be used in cases of multiple murders or murders of people under the age of 15, otherwise life imprisonment. For other crimes such as rape, I believe the perpetrator, if proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt should be physically altered so they cannot achieve an erection, and also should have a forced vasectomy.
Edit: Of course rape isn't just a guy thing.. Don't know what the punishment should be for women.
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I think the Death Penalty should be used in cases of multiple murders or murders of people under the age of 15, otherwise life imprisonment. For other crimes such as rape, I believe the perpetrator, if proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt should be physically altered so they cannot achieve an erection, and also should have a forced vasectomy.
Edit: Of course rape isn't just a guy thing.. Don't know what the punishment should be for women.
Should we cut off the hands of people that steal as well, you all seem to keep forgetting these are still human beings. Beyond that our justice system is still very much imperfect and we should stay away from any irreversible punishments such as the death penalty or castration for more than just moral reasons ,but because you never know 100% that someone is guilty. We should always allow people no matter the crime to redeem themselves or prove themselves innocent.
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I think the Death Penalty should be used in cases of multiple murders or murders of people under the age of 15, otherwise life imprisonment. For other crimes such as rape, I believe the perpetrator, if proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt should be physically altered so they cannot achieve an erection, and also should have a forced vasectomy.
Edit: Of course rape isn't just a guy thing.. Don't know what the punishment should be for women.
Should we cut off the hands of people that steal as well, you all seem to keep forgetting these are still human beings. Beyond that our justice system is still very much imperfect and we should stay away from any irreversible punishments such as the death penalty or castration for more than just moral reasons ,but because you never know 100% that someone is guilty. We should always allow people no matter the crime to redeem themselves or prove themselves innocent.
Stealing is a little bit different than Rape... And as far as I'm concerned, someone who rapes someone else is far below a human being in my eyes. And like I said, only should be done if proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Meaning where it is absolutely incontrovertible that this happened (witnesses, DNA, a confession even). If it cannot be proven with no reasonable suspicion on the contrary, these punishments should be put into motion.
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I think the Death Penalty should be used in cases of multiple murders or murders of people under the age of 15, otherwise life imprisonment. For other crimes such as rape, I believe the perpetrator, if proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt should be physically altered so they cannot achieve an erection, and also should have a forced vasectomy.
Edit: Of course rape isn't just a guy thing.. Don't know what the punishment should be for women.
Should we cut off the hands of people that steal as well, you all seem to keep forgetting these are still human beings. Beyond that our justice system is still very much imperfect and we should stay away from any irreversible punishments such as the death penalty or castration for more than just moral reasons ,but because you never know 100% that someone is guilty. We should always allow people no matter the crime to redeem themselves or prove themselves innocent.
Stealing is a little bit different than Rape... And as far as I'm concerned, someone who rapes someone else is far below a human being in my eyes. And like I said, only should be done if proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Meaning where it is absolutely incontrovertible that this happened (witnesses, DNA, a confession even). If it cannot be proven with no reasonable suspicion on the contrary, these punishments should be put into motion.
Liam's right, you know how hard it is to prove something 100%, it just doesn't happen, and even then, would we be any better mutilating a criminal for a crime, then the actual crime itself. I would hope we would take the higher road in that situation.
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I think the Death Penalty should be used in cases of multiple murders or murders of people under the age of 15, otherwise life imprisonment. For other crimes such as rape, I believe the perpetrator, if proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt should be physically altered so they cannot achieve an erection, and also should have a forced vasectomy.
Edit: Of course rape isn't just a guy thing.. Don't know what the punishment should be for women.
Should we cut off the hands of people that steal as well, you all seem to keep forgetting these are still human beings. Beyond that our justice system is still very much imperfect and we should stay away from any irreversible punishments such as the death penalty or castration for more than just moral reasons ,but because you never know 100% that someone is guilty. We should always allow people no matter the crime to redeem themselves or prove themselves innocent.
Just because we are Human beings doesn't mean anything. We are still animals like anything on this planet. Redemption is impossible to some no matter what they do. Redemption is a self-righteous idea to make yourself feel better at night. At the end of the day you can't fix what you've done and it'll be better to put your miserable existence to an end before you do more harm. People don't change no matter what happens to them.
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Liam's right, you know how hard it is to prove something 100%, it just doesn't happen, and even then, would we be any better mutilating a criminal for a crime, then the actual crime itself. I would hope we would take the higher road in that situation.
I believe we would be taking the higher road in making sure the person in question would not be able to commit the crime again. As someone who has a family member who has been raped, and having seen her go into a depression for weeks at a time because she occasionally sees the guy around town, and having seen how her father had to leave work (at a police station) for a night because he was going to shoot the guy (whom showed up in the drunk tank). This guy is walking around again, I'm not sure how long his prison sentence was but it couldn't have been more than 2 years. So he pays two years of his life and gets to walk around in public, someone who has shown themselves to be a sexual predator, whom admitted to the crime, is allowed to walk around with little to no repercussions?
Sure, registered sex offender, some public embarrassment perhaps, but if he chooses to do so, he may commit the crime he so willingly showed he was able to once again at a moments notice. Hell, he can have kids, and what happens to them? Do they just have to put up with the sexual abuse? Sure, they might report it and he'll be arrested again, but the damage is done. These victims will never get that sense of security again. Ever. So why should we be worried about the rapist being 'redeemed', as he already gave someone else a life sentence that they cannot escape from.
No, I believe that bastard and any other one who commits these crimes (Rape, Crimes against children) should pay in a way where they will not be able to re-commit the crime. Whether it be a permanent prison stay without the possibility of parole, or a shorter prison stay with castration/alteration as I stated before, or death. Preferably the last two, because the first one is expensive and the prisons would fill up and stay full for a very long time, costing the citizens (of whichever nation it is) loads of money to keep these pieces of filth alive and comfortable in their little cells getting 3 square meals a day and recess outside for exercise time.
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just though i'd atleast ad a paragraph to answear the first portion, I did not take it personally and I am not mad at you. I tried showing that this is a debate thread name calling and jokes are rarely a side of it, because if you add that sort of stuff it gets very easily heated.
Gun control could contribute to lower return rates, but only in certain crimes. We still have lower return rates from mugging, grand theft auto and larceny neither of which genrally directly requires a gun.
but hey I see your point. However is that not a good thing though?
Also I am not saying the system would be the answear to your system because it isn't, America has dug such a giant hole for it self that it would be impossible to pay for such a fix up. However saying they are both very lacking is wrong, they are both lacking yes but adding very just makes it plane wrong. A system has never been as good as it is now pretty much, so in our limited understanding as human beings it is still as close to perfect as we managed to muster up.
on the whole you can't see where I am coming from it doesn't matter if you don't see the news, your social life does not consist of talking to me about what happens here with the people who have gone to jail. You hear from every form of media about your own system, bare in mind media is any form of storage or spreading of information.
Every person in the world has heard this expression an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Losing another human being is a horrific experience and an awfull situation but sorry to say, but he is not getting justice no matter what you do killing that other man is not going to bring him back. Also the death sentence is more likely to be a thing if you kill a person off higher ranking how is that fair? I thought every human being was equal in such a question...
No1 here is saying their system is perfect or the ultimate answer we merely conflict in if we think one or the other system has more redeeming factors about it. I personally think our system should be split in 2, first time offenders can go to the prisons we have now maybe even 2nd time offenders but everything after that should go to a typical American prison. fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.
In America those types of crimes do often occur with guns. Unless were talking about the thugs that run around at night with a crow bar or something. Also in America a lot of mugging also involves guns. And yeah, I'll be honest I don't like the American gun laws. I honestly believe they contribute to higher crime rates, and I don't know what larceny is.
Actually pretty much all of my knowledge comes from you telling me how your system works, I don't watch mainstream media. At all. And like I've said it does have lots of things America could learn from. But most of what I know of your system comes directly from you and a little bit of online valid research, I'm aware that the media far over hypes your system is being to gental to the degrees of everyones happy and eating cotton candy, and I know that isn't true. Which is why I hate the media and refuse to watch their crap.
And some sort of split system could be nice indeed.
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Seems we are at a slight agreement then =) no use to continue that part of the debate.
I think I have to say this once, bad things happen big whoop get over it.
Spadie congrats, if you are from America you just proved my point as to me thinking that the american views on this subject are barbaric.
If your views are that if you've done anything bad you are inherently bad and you should be punished your entire god damned life for a lapse in judgement then I must say, you are in fact just as evil as the men you hate. You've probly done something in your life that you regret that could be illegal or badly impacted another persons life, should you be punished your entire life for that?
Say if you speed with your car does that mean you should never be allowed in a car again? If you bullied a child when you were young does that mean you are just evil and you should be made a social outcast?
I would rather kill myself than live in a society that is that judgemental.
Don't confuse this with personal attack, we are all allowed our own thoughts but please try to view other sides.
Set yourself in the person situation, most people who do bad things are normal human beings that are pushed to a limit. Could be that child you bullied once in your childhood that just grew up completely fucked up and hate himself so much that in the end he snapped and did not care who he hurt. Technically that would make it so that you made a rapist, so are you directly responsible for that? should you be prosecuted?
same thing goes for people who do serious drugs, they were most likely at a low point and gave into peer pressure and a need to feel important or good. Does this make them terrible human beings that are a waste of space? not really.. they are merely human beings that got assulted by life and chose the wrong ways to deal with it.
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Seems we are at a slight agreement then =) no use to continue that part of the debate.
I think I have to say this once, bad things happen big whoop get over it.
Spadie congrats, if you are from America you just proved my point as to me thinking that the american views on this subject are barbaric.
If your views are that if you've done anything bad you are inherently bad and you should be punished your entire god damned life for a lapse in judgement then I must say, you are in fact just as evil as the men you hate. You've probly done something in your life that you regret that could be illegal or badly impacted another persons life, should you be punished your entire life for that?
Say if you speed with your car does that mean you should never be allowed in a car again? If you bullied a child when you were young does that mean you are just evil and you should be made a social outcast?
I would rather kill myself than live in a society that is that judgemental.
Don't confuse this with personal attack, we are all allowed our own thoughts but please try to view other sides.
Set yourself in the person situation, most people who do bad things are normal human beings that are pushed to a limit. Could be that child you bullied once in your childhood that just grew up completely fucked up and hate himself so much that in the end he snapped and did not care who he hurt. Technically that would make it so that you made a rapist, so are you directly responsible for that? should you be prosecuted?
same thing goes for people who do serious drugs, they were most likely at a low point and gave into peer pressure and a need to feel important or good. Does this make them terrible human beings that are a waste of space? not really.. they are merely human beings that got assulted by life and chose the wrong ways to deal with it.
Bullying is a little different than Rape. Rape is not a lapse in judgement, and these people do not deserve any chance at redemption. Also; no, I'm not American. I'm Canadian.
Also; about the speeding car, if you drive drunk and kill someone I believe you should not be allowed to drive again. Same with careless driving resulting in a fatality. Take the tools away from these people to commit a crime if possible.
ALSO; I do take being called ''as evil as the men I hate'' as a personal attack, as I have made it clear that the people I hate are murderers, child abusers and rapists. So in that sentence you directly said I am as bad as murderers, child abusers and rapists. Of course as you are a 'Community Leader' (which, as being such you should know better than to say things like that) so perhaps you are exempt from the ''no personal attacks'' rule. Mind you, I take a personal attack to be anything from racism to making fun of someones appearance, but saying they're as bad as the people who commit some of the worlds greatest crimes is a whole other level, and I don't think saying ''Not a personal attack but-'' makes it alright. ''Oh, Not to be racist but I hate your kind''
Does that make it any better? Nope.
Yes, bad things happen, but ''big whoop, get over it''? Try saying that to the family of a victim of murder, rape, assault, etc. I believe justice is making sure someone doesn't do something again, which is why I think my methods would be more effective than throwing them in a cell for a few years, looking them sternly in the eye, pointing, scrunching up your face and going ''Don't do that again!'' and spraying them with a spray bottle as they waltz out of the prison, back into a relatively normal life (that they have deprived someone of because of their crime)
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what I said is if you firmly believe that every person who has ever done anything wrong are inherently evil and deserver nothing, then you are a bad person. I did not believe that you thougt so, so I didn't believe it was a personal attack.
How is doing the same thing as the people that you believe are doing something wrong justice?
By that I was not saying that it is easy to get over something like rape I was more saying it to like other things like shit my stuff got stolen.
If you want to know I should not be alive right now, hospitals nearly killed me among every other thing in my life. I was robbed of first my entire first 7 years of my life then I was robbed of 1 more year when I was 16. I could get over that, and continue to live my fucking life, so why can't others do the same?
As to rape, most of the time yes it is a lapse in judgement sorry to be the one to break this to you but hormones can be hard to control, and when you are allready down/easy to break then your judgment may just snap and you do something you would never have thought of doing before.
I've been friends with pretty much any type of person from murderers to people who have been fucked by drugs, they are not all bad people. Most of the people are just another human being trying to make their way trough the world, sure they fucked up somewhere along the way but who hasn't?
It sounds wrong to say that murder was just a fuck up or rape for that matter, but truth is in most cases of murder there is a provocator and a doer. There is for the most part never a completely innocent party.
The same can't directly be said about rape in that case it is a case of people being unable to control their hormones, so maybe chemical castration for a while could be a solution I don't know but direct castration and making them the laughing stock for their whole life seems just wrong. That is murder to be honest, you are killing their chance of a normal life.
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Yeah, hormones can be hard to control, but why risk letting someone out to do it again? Who says they'll be able to control themselves after a short stay in prison? I don't believe people can change their nature just because they received a slap on the wrist. Is it not true that most people in prison these days are repeat offenders? They've been given a chance to not be a moron, they blew it. For less serious crimes like theft, minor assault, drug possession, these people are getting out and turning right back around into prison. I don't see why we should give these people any leniency after they've blown it like that. As for more serious crimes that we've discussed, I see no reason to let these people out of prison so they can just commit the same crimes again. How is it someone can kill another human being and then be out of prison in 10 years on parole while the person they killed is under ground, and their family living their lives with a large gaping hole where a loved one used to be? How is that fair to the victim or the victims family? How is it fair to a rape victim knowing that their rapist is out on the streets looking for women, sleeping around etc? How is it fair that a child abuser gets to live life, albeit with the label of Sex Offender, while the child has to go through life remembering all those times the person came and abused them? Do you have any idea of the psychological issues these people develop?
But oh, the criminal says they're sorry, they must be redeemed! Let us let them out in a few years, it will all be fine!
First degree murder should be punishable by death, as well as first or second degree murder with a child involved
Second degree murder should be life in prison
Manslaughter, 5-25 years, depending on the circumstance as Manslaughter can also be defined as an accident where a death takes place
Rape, 15 years and chemical castration (or altering the blood flow to the penis so it cannot have an erection) so the victims can sleep easier
Sexual abuse involving a minor, 25 to life, as payback for really screwing up an innocent persons life.
None of these things will really help the victim of the initial crime or fix for them what happened.. What it will do is make sure that this crime cannot be committed (at all or for a long time) by these sick individuals. And, after these people are released, they should be put under much stricter rules than the current parole system in most countries.
Also; I believe if someone violates parole or the conditions of their release, they should be put back in prison for a minimum of 3 months, doubling with each offense.
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I understand what you mean, I mean I get very mad too when I hear of all that injustice. However in Norway the chance for a murderer to return to prison is or used to be 32% and rape 48%. Which is much better than the 50-70% in America, not sure about Canada.
Some people suffer from black outs (in regards to murder) in which they don't know what they do. I myself have experience such a black out, when I was I believe 12 years old, I was physically bullied by another kid and one day I snapped. I punched the kid into the ground and grabbed scissors I was ready to stab into his eye socket ( according to my friends) but then my friends tore me off him. So, many times murder is a thng that happens due to equal abuse.
I am too tired to elaborate much more but yeah, I hope you see what am talking about as well.
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I do see your side, worry not, I just disagree in how people should be punished for their actions.
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First off I think the idea of castrating someone is awful ,but the main issue with it is that it simply doesn't work. They will still have sexual urges and will still be able to commit rape just by different means. Also as I stated early the justice system is about more than revenge its about helping deter crime in the first place and threat of death or life in prison won't stop people from committing crimes.
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Well don't you think that ''I'm going to cut your dick off'' is a pretty decent deterrent?
I think so. I don't want my dick cut off.
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Seems we are at a slight agreement then =) no use to continue that part of the debate.
de·bate /diˈbÄt/
Noun:
A formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward.
Honestly, if it leads to an argument that isn't heated and is calm/formal/controlled, I see no problem with a disagreement.
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Captain obvious strikes again.
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Let's just stop posting and let this thread die. <3 Too opinion based, makes people mad apparently.
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Let's just stop posting and let this thread die. <3 Too opinion based, makes people mad apparently.
Fuck you. Not die, this thread shall (?)