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Messages - dirtylaundry022
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91
« on: November 22, 2010, 07:11:07 AM »
1. I'm not saying you're not open-minded crypto. I'm saying that atheism itself is not open-minded. you got confused somehow No, it ISN'T. Some ATHEISTS may be close minded, but ATHEISM, as a worldview, is NOT close minded.
5.Again, just look at my first rebuttal. I'm not saying you yourself are close-minded. I'd like to know that from knowing you these past few years you would take care in making decisions that affect your entire life. However, atheism, being an "understanding" that there are no gods or higher beings whatsoever, is pretty much the text-book example of close-mindedness. Again, not the people who follow it, but the "understanding" on its own.
It's less an "understanding," a term which tries to tiptoe around the truth, than adherence to an assumption that has yet to be disproved. Regardless, "understanding" something does not necessarily equate with being close minded to alternatives. "Understanding" something while refusing to examine alternatives is close minded; "understanding" something after fairly examining and fairly rejecting alternatives is by definition NOT close minded.
but once again I will argue that it is, from my personal perspective. faith proves itself through theology, which I define as faith seeking understanding. it is not science based. atheism sees itself proven through science, which looks at physical concrete evidence. through this specific perspective, if you attempt to prove religion through science, it will neither be directly proved nor disproved. God true or not, is beyond physical comprehension. If you look at atheism from a PURELY theological perspective, you see that it rejects higher powers not through faith, but through human philosophy. Higher powers, unable to be comprehended directly by humans without divine revelation, are not provable through just human philosophy, higher powers are above that, if they are to exist.If atheism were open-minded, from either perspective, it would be uncaring whether gods existed or not. Though science, it is neither provable nor disprovable, since any God would be above worldly limitations. through theology we see that god is only perceptible through divine relvelation, which if you don't believe in these powers will not make sense to you anyways. Thus, another stalemate. If atheism was uncaring, therefore, it would be open-minded. but most atheists, I'm not saying anyone here, just the ones I know personally, take the position that no god exists, which really isn't provable. If you just choose to believe in no god for that perspectives own sake I have no problem. that in itself has no implied close-mindedness the close-mindedness occurs if it is insisted that there cannot be gods, and that this can be proven. that in itself simply cannot be proven, unless you are completely closed to the possibility from the start.
92
« on: November 22, 2010, 05:58:48 AM »
Scientifically supported atheism is, by definition, more open minded than theism.
Technically, it isn't, because its just as much religion as thesim is. and since you're denying the existence of any god AT ALL, which then brings to discussion your loose definition of open-minded, which I don't care much to argue, because the term open-minded in itself is pointless. You're going to be biased in some way, shape or form, and saying you're open-minded really means you're just ignoring your own personal bias. There is NO person on this planet who is completely open-minded. Keep that in mind
Open-mindedness does not entail acceptance of all ideas. I have given theism fair consideration, found it wanting, and rejected it.
regardless of whatever "scientific evidence" there is, there is only one person who chooses what you believe, said person being yourself. Whichever faith you choose, whether you acknowledge there to be some sort of higher being or not, you are making a choice. you are choosing to believe in some fact, regardless of whatever you justify it with. You're still taking a leap of faith believing in no god rather than a god. It's still faith, and thus still technically theism. No, you are not. Atheism is lack of belief; it is not itself a belief system. It's the default. There's no leap. It's square one.
it comes down to choosing with however you want to live your live, and whatever justifies/makes you comfortable with your life choices. If you live a life closely related to Christian ideals, chances are you might be a Christian. doesn't take brain surgery to figure that one out. OR, you might not be, there are exceptions. If you wish to live a life free of regret about any decisions/choices that might come into conflict with christian/any other religion's ideal's, chances are you won't be a part of those religions. There's no reason not to separate Christianity's philosophy from its theology. A religion might have some admirable ethical stances; that doesn't mean that in order to take those stances you should also believe in its gods.
On that note, if for some reason, you need the explicit proof that there is no god so that way you don't feel wrong/bad about something, then go ahead. I don't really care too much about what other people do with their lives. Neither do I, until people start flying planes into dense population centers based on religious convictions. Well, that's not necessarily true. I'm highly intolerant of idiocy and I think it's vaguely immoral to just sit back and watch as people are led astray by irrational delusions. But still.
Just don't say something is "open-minded" when its not, or neither is ANYTHING for that matter. so just saying the phrase is hypocritical.
Okay. That's just not true. Atheist or not, I am open minded. I am receptive to religious arguments. Just because I am receptive of them, though, does not mean I accept them. Rejection of a worldview built on falsehood and superstition is not an exercise in close-mindedness.
1. I'm not saying you're not open-minded crypto. I'm saying that atheism itself is not open-minded. you got confused somehow 2.This is just a circle arguement, thus me responding would only continue the circle 3.I'm not saying there isn't, I pointed out there are exceptions, and a good number of them, if you cared to read my whole statement. While separating the 2 is fine, I was just stating from personal experience that this doesn't happen too often, if not at all. In your/others lives, this may be different. I wouldn't know 4.I agree. That's why I don't let myself become irrational or follow religions that advocate/celebrate that sort of behavior. and if you even bring up the crusades, I will point out to you that many catholics, including myself, believe that was horribly wrong. 5.Again, just look at my first rebuttal. I'm not saying you yourself are close-minded. I'd like to know that from knowing you these past few years you would take care in making decisions that affect your entire life. However, atheism, being an "understanding" that there are no gods or higher beings whatsoever, is pretty much the text-book example of close-mindedness. Again, not the people who follow it, but the "understanding" on its own.
93
« on: November 22, 2010, 04:16:42 AM »
94
« on: November 22, 2010, 03:25:51 AM »
Scientifically supported atheism is, by definition, more open minded than theism.
Technically, it isn't, because its just as much religion as thesim is. and since you're denying the existence of any god AT ALL, which then brings to discussion your loose definition of open-minded, which I don't care much to argue, because the term open-minded in itself is pointless. You're going to be biased in some way, shape or form, and saying you're open-minded really means you're just ignoring your own personal bias. There is NO person on this planet who is completely open-minded. Keep that in mind FURTHER RANT! regardless of whatever "scientific evidence" there is, there is only one person who chooses what you believe, said person being yourself. Whichever faith you choose, whether you acknowledge there to be some sort of higher being or not, you are making a choice. you are choosing to believe in some fact, regardless of whatever you justify it with. You're still taking a leap of faith believing in no god rather than a god. It's still faith, and thus still technically theism. it comes down to choosing with however you want to live your live, and whatever justifies/makes you comfortable with your life choices. If you live a life closely related to Christian ideals, chances are you might be a Christian. doesn't take brain surgery to figure that one out. OR, you might not be, there are exceptions. If you wish to live a life free of regret about any decisions/choices that might come into conflict with christian/any other religion's ideal's, chances are you won't be a part of those religions. On that note, if for some reason, you need the explicit proof that there is no god so that way you don't feel wrong/bad about something, then go ahead. I don't really care too much about what other people do with their lives. Just don't say something is "open-minded" when its not, or neither is ANYTHING for that matter. so just saying the phrase is hypocritical.
95
« on: November 21, 2010, 08:49:51 PM »
It was broken for veterans??
I've never NOT been able to see the homepage OR the shoutbox....
weird
96
« on: November 21, 2010, 07:15:52 PM »
Let's all get on the welcome  !!!!!!!! Welcome, hope to see you around on the forums
97
« on: November 21, 2010, 07:10:22 PM »
98
« on: November 21, 2010, 03:47:22 AM »
99
« on: November 21, 2010, 03:45:39 AM »
New Jersey ain't that bad. :<
I know, lol. Just poking fun of the stereotype, like I will be doing plenty of when I get there. hahahahaha
100
« on: November 20, 2010, 09:56:30 PM »
This thanksgiving break, I'm going to visit some of my uncle's family for the week out in New Jersey. So, therefore, I will be unable to play anything while I'm gone. I will still be able to check the forums though. Play wit you when I get back, if I'm alive from being in New Jersey  , -dirty
101
« on: November 20, 2010, 09:54:40 PM »
102
« on: November 20, 2010, 09:53:36 PM »
103
« on: November 19, 2010, 08:54:54 PM »
I'd be careful about publishing that sort of stuff on the net, Wholegrain.
104
« on: November 19, 2010, 08:41:46 PM »
I like to look at things from both perspectives. I personally, am Roman Catholic, but that doesn't mean that science has no place. Both arguments presented on the forums have holes. We are not professionals in these fields, not should any of you be foolish enough to think that you are. You should be knowledgeable enough to know WHY you believe your own personal beliefs at minimum. Most of us, if not all have us, don't really have sufficient knowledge to tell others what to believe at 100% worked out EXACT opinion of religion.
Now, if you really are interested in studying theology and the existence of a higher power, you're not actually going to learn it from online forums :/ what you should do if you are really interested is go enroll in theology classes over the summer at a local religious university. If this is unavailable, just look at theologists' writings on your own. Some good authors to look at are Alister McGrath, St. Anslem of Canterbury, St. Thomas Aquinas (A major figure if you are unfamiliar), Ignatius of Loyola, or even writings from Pope John Paul II (you should know who this is...).
If you're already a believer, these will enlighten your religious experiences many times over, adding to why you believe your faith.
If you don't believe, this should enlighten you both on proofs of God and the like, or give you sufficient fuel to light your anti-christian flames.
Now, this is just specifically for christianity. There are other documents out there for the other major world religions (Judaism, Islam, etc.). I have read sever and have reached my own conclusions on these religions and choose not to follow them for a plethora of reasons.
The worst thing you can do is become angry with fighting over religion, as it defeats the purpose of religion to begin with :/
105
« on: November 18, 2010, 02:59:56 PM »
I love Civilization, why don't we have a thread about this!!!
Now that its actually out, who plays this?
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