Conjoint Gaming [Game On]
CG Administration Section => Admin Abuse => Admin Department => Solved Admin Abuse => Topic started by: Lone Mudkips on December 02, 2012, 06:52:57 PM
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Name of player reporting abuse: Lone Grey
Steam ID, to facilitate unban if applicable: No bans
Server: Conjoint Gaming TTT
Admin who is suspected of the abuse: Neltharion
In which server did the abuse occur?: Conjoint Gaming TTT? (same server question?)
What occurred, what did the abuse consist of: Muting without warning
What time and day did it happen (put down your time zone too): December 2nd, 2 PM of Central Time
Please link any evidence (videos, screen shots, etc.):
Scooby's mute (gave warning after mute):
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/902107446101944169/2D0580FE7A63EB86CF00809458E667DCAE0748A1/
My mute:
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/902107446101949023/DDBA60EB04AC2FC17B39312977EA97C7F90B5D45/
Three mutes (no chat warning):
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/902107446101960408/5C2591F40DD6921410C0B2D99FDA7FD5F8D6247C/
Additional comments: To be honest, I find it ridiculous that he muted me (and others) without warning. I admit that I sort of screamed and/or freaked out on the server at times, but NONE of the admins (Nexus, Blazyd, Tendovvi, etc.) had ever brought up about my little "squeal of joy and/or rage."
I may have no video evidence when it took place of the mute, but there are witnesses of the mutes.
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When I joined the server I had gotten pmed by a couple people telling me what I should say because of Neltharion muting for bullshit reasons and for no explination or warning. Half of the players who normally speak weren't ebing as vocal because they didn't wanna be muted, and everyone was making the statement 'watch what you say hes gonna mute you!'.
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Witnessed all of it, muted multiple players without warning, muted for spectacularly harsh reasons (for one, Lone was laughing on the mic for a split second - got muted.)
As Kwaurtz said, a lot of players were more... silent, not at all as fun, and people were making that statement.
Ludicrously harsh, to the point where a few people cheered when he departed.
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Looks like from the screen shots the first two mutes, occurred because you guys were whistling.
I look forward to seeing Nelths side of the story of course and additional information which I'm sure you will all post after this.
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I wasn't there and obviously didn't see what happened, but keep in mind, admins don't have to warn for mic spam, just singing. It is just common courtesy. Whether or not people were actually mic spamming is a different question.
EDIT: I typed that wrong lol fixed.
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I wasn't there and obviously didn't see what happened, but keep in mind, admins don't have to mute for mic spam, just singing. It is just common courtesy. Whether or not people were actually mic spamming is a different question.
Mic/Chat Spam
Singing: Warning then Mute for remainder of map.
Spam : Gag(text) or Mute(Voice) depending on what they are spamming.
Spam admin chat: Warning then ban for 1 hour.
Rejoins to avoid Mute/Gag: Re-mute/Re-gag
2 Rejoins to avoid Mute/Gag: Pmute/gag
According to the punishment standards if they mic spam they can just be muted. Singing is the only time you get a warning according to this. Which mainly makes scene. So you can mute for mic spam as you should.
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I wasn't there and obviously didn't see what happened, but keep in mind, admins don't have to mute for mic spam, just singing. It is just common courtesy. Whether or not people were actually mic spamming is a different question.
Mic/Chat Spam
Singing: Warning then Mute for remainder of map.
Spam : Gag(text) or Mute(Voice) depending on what they are spamming.
Spam admin chat: Warning then ban for 1 hour.
Rejoins to avoid Mute/Gag: Re-mute/Re-gag
2 Rejoins to avoid Mute/Gag: Pmute/gag
According to the punishment standards if they mic spam they can just be muted. Singing is the only time you get a warning according to this. Which mainly makes scene. So you can mute for mic spam as you should.
Oh, not any "Mic spam", was just split-second things and small things, nothing to warrant a mute.
Anyway, letting Nelth post here,
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Scooby, I admitted that he whistled for about like three seconds. I laughed when playing TTT, and none of the admins muted me or warned me about that.
But things aside, I am willing to listen to Nelth's story.
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Neltharion has a very stupidly low temper when it comes to "mic spam."
Apparently he mutes anyone who makes an - at least - 2 millisecond loud noise that he thinks is annoying, any kid who speaks even a sentence, and people who laugh. All without a single warning
(I don't think a "warning" after the mute counts because the players unjustly punished don't become unmuted, and with the auto map switch broken, I really feel bad for them.)
And no, I was not amongst the people who were muted, but I was a witness.
From my perspective, Neltharion with his bad mood decided to abuse a mic spam rule that probably needs some debate. In my opinion, having the admin decide what he constitutes as "mic spam" seems to be a bad idea in Nelth's case.
Scooby's wistling, if really above 3 seconds, seems deserving of the mute, however.
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Useless posts that do not contribute in any way to solving the Admin Abuse thread will be deleted
Seriously guys, I thought we had gone over this...
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1. I gave verbal warnings to scooby and the "Lolololol" people over mic. They continued and were muted.
2. Lone grey was shouting a sentence, not just a mere laugh, and I muted him because of that.
3. I have never muted someone just because they are young, there are many mature people with low voices, I mute the ones that are trolls, and I give them warning beforehand.
4. Not sure if it was chrono or dolan, but one was using a high pitched voice to annoy on purpose, they other and charizard persisted the Lolling after I warned them not too.
5. If you don't punish for micspam, it will only breed more, and that is not something I want to see happen to this server. I have seen other servers fall this way and have no desire to see the same come to conjoint.
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Useless posts that do not contribute in any way to solving the Admin Abuse thread will be deleted
Seriously guys, I thought we had gone over this...
????
What's off topic?
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I fixed my post up top, accidently typed mute instead of warn. It'll make more sense if you read it now.
EDIT: Inject, it was kamikaze's post about some dis gon b gud stuff.
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So in short, neltharion sounds like hes being extremely anal about mic usage and over reacting.
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1. I gave verbal warnings to scooby and the "Lolololol" people over mic. They continued and were muted.
2. Lone grey was shouting a sentence, not just a mere laugh, and I muted him because of that.
3. I have never muted someone just because they are young, there are many mature people with low voices, I mute the ones that are trolls, and I give them warning beforehand.
4. Not sure if it was chrono or dolan, but one was using a high pitched voice to annoy on purpose, they other and charizard persisted the Lolling after I warned them not too.
5. If you don't punish for micspam, it will only breed more, and that is not something I want to see happen to this server. I have seen other servers fall this way and have no desire to see the same come to conjoint.
For #2
I don't remember shouting a sentence. But if I did shout a sentence, why would it considered be mic spamming? I wasn't intentionally trying to start something or hear anyone get bothered about it. Like I said, none of the other admins had a problem or mention anything about my mic talk.
For #3
When the mutes kicked in, I stayed out of the way and never trolled anyone. When I got killed, I laughed because I was having fun. Until you muted me and never gave me a warning about it.
For #5
The admins usually warn the players to cut the mic spam. If they continue, they get muted. I was with them throughout the months and they got the server under control until they leave the server. I can assure you, some of them know what they are doing. I've seen them.
I'll let you go on #1 and #4, but I was minding my own business until YOU muted me for that kind of excuse on me.
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in the future ALWAYS give warnings using admin chat, at least for me it is easier to notice the red text over someone trying to yell over everyone else's yelling. Also it gives proof of a warning so threads like this don't come up, threads like this being "i warned them verbally " vs "i got no warning"
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For #2
I don't remember shouting a sentence. But if I did shout a sentence, why would it considered be mic spamming? I wasn't intentionally trying to start something or hear anyone get bothered about it. Like I said, none of the other admins had a problem or mention anything about my mic talk.
For #3
When the mutes kicked in, I stayed out of the way and never trolled anyone. When I got killed, I laughed because I was having fun. Until you muted me and never gave me a warning about it.
For #5
The admins usually warn the players to cut the mic spam. If they continue, they get muted. I was with them throughout the months and they got the server under control until they leave the server. I can assure you, some of them know what they are doing. I've seen them.
I'll let you go on #1 and #4, but I was minding my own business until YOU muted me for that kind of excuse on me.
Shouting on the mic is definetly micspam. #3 does not affect you, you are not a squeaker. As for 5, I also see them do this, that is their choice, it is not stated that a warning MUST be given.
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1. I gave verbal warnings to scooby and the "Lolololol" people over mic. They continued and were muted.
2. Lone grey was shouting a sentence, not just a mere laugh, and I muted him because of that.
3. I have never muted someone just because they are young, there are many mature people with low voices, I mute the ones that are trolls, and I give them warning beforehand.
4. Not sure if it was chrono or dolan, but one was using a high pitched voice to annoy on purpose, they other and charizard persisted the Lolling after I warned them not too.
5. If you don't punish for micspam, it will only breed more, and that is not something I want to see happen to this server. I have seen other servers fall this way and have no desire to see the same come to conjoint.
@1 after you said stop saying lololol i did then charizard did it and he was muted i never did it again just pointing this out.
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Scooby, you were muted for whistling, not loling on the mic.
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Verbally warning people is useless when people are talking at the same time. People can't hear you when other people are talking at the same time.
Therefore, verbally warning people is useless when nobody can hear you. And yeah, at the time of all this, there were a lot of people using their microphones.
Wait, did you seriously mute them with those "warnings" as justification? I didn't even know you warned them at all (except after they were muted, but like I said earlier, I don't think that counts)
Also, I find it weird that you decided to "warn" them verbally BEFORE you mute them, then use the admin chat AFTER you mute them.
might as well just whisper into your mic and expect everyone to listen
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I warned in between the spammers when I warned them, they should have been able to hear loud and clear. And I didn't use admin chat afterwards, that was a different admin.
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The warnings really aren't the issue, it is whether or not what people were doing is actually classified as mic spam.
While I do agree text is all around safer, a vocal warning then mute is fine. If people are loud to the point where they cannot hear the vocal warning then tough luck, because as said before mic spam warnings aren't required.
If someone is being loud enough to the point where they can't hear warnings they probably deserve to be muted anyway, but the noise can also be allotted to other people talking at the same time.
It sounds like a combination of Nelth being too harsh on mutes and some communication issues.
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Having no experience with what happened, I can only offer insight through means other than witness account. This doesn't seem to be the first time Nelth has had an issue with players: http://www.conjointgaming.com/forum/index.php?topic=7893.0 (http://www.conjointgaming.com/forum/index.php?topic=7893.0)
Looking at the punishment standards for TTT, the issue in this link seems to be a wrongful ruling. As listed for admin disrespect, he is not required to warn for gag/mute for such an offense, and the hour ban was WAY less than the day ban suggested for admin chat abuse.
Now, regarding THIS issue:
It looks like, from my point of view, that this was either a misunderstanding, or an admin having a serious problem. As to which, I am not able to say.
At any rate, even if Nelth is found to be at fault, I would push for no punishment as of right now. In the original thread, the following was posted by towersheep:
Nelth, I looked in the logs and you never gave him warning. No mute nor gag either. If you do this again you will face suspension or possibly admin removal. I'm not going to take any action now as we are used to the MOTD being our warning and it is currently buggy.
That previous "offense" is complete crap and should not push Nelth into a corner right now.
In the future, I suggest someone to amend the TTT Punishment Standards to include a CHAT warning for singing/whistling/etc. This would make for a less debatable standard, and an easier one for patrons to follow when they get warned. It may be a little more work for the admins, but it would pay off.
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The thing is that here we have multiple people vouching for this, and half of us werent even part of the punishment. If someone isn't even being punished and is speaking up against it because they were there for part of it, or for the full duration, there is an obvious problem.
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The thing is that here we have multiple people vouching for this, and half of us werent even part of the punishment. If someone isn't even being punished and is speaking up against it because they were there for part of it, or for the full duration, there is an obvious problem.
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To be clear, I was misinformed. Nelth never had his admin suspended before.
Talked to tower, He doesn't seem to think any abuse went on, so post some more stuff before this gets solved if you'd like. Perhaps the tables will turn.
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48 hours for users to respond to this thread before lock.
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It is not locked......... just saying...
This is a quick way to loose admin. You know the rules and should know that a PM would have worked just as well.