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CG Main => Debate Forum => Topic started by: Accan on June 05, 2012, 01:02:24 AM
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Nonreligious people can post too, but mainly this is moral debate for us religious peeps.
Lev. 18:22 , "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
This is from the King James Version of the Bible, the oldest and most widely accepted English translation. This verse isn't ambiguous about it at all, it spells it out pretty neatly. In fact, the first use of the term "abomination" was to describe homosexuality. Problem is, i don't see the issue with homosexuality... I want to be accepting, but God's Word is pretty crystal clear about this. God's idea of fairness and law is far different from my own. It sucks... What i think i'll do concerning this is ignore the verse (although i'll never allow myself to sin like that) and be normal and accepting to homosexuals, should i know any. My main goal is to coexist with people of different ideologies, despite the fact that the Bible opposes this viewpoint.
I was wondering, what are some of you believers out there thinking concerning homosexuality? How do you treat people that are gay, would you be gay yourself, etc. Just wanna get some input on the issue with a wide range of people. Also this is directed more toward the religious individuals here, but atheists, if you have some good input i'd like to hear it :D
This thread is purely for calm, thoughtful debate. No arguing.
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The bible is a poor example of true christianity, just lift all the jesus stuff out of the bible and put that into a book. The condeming of homosexuality was only in the old testament, which was mixed with Jesus' teachings by the roman catholic church during the dark ages, and basically made a fool out of christ. Christ is ok for the msot part, but the rest of the bible is filled with hate and violence.
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I can recite how it would be ok using the bro code amendments to prove my point
basically they make great wingmen and it doesn't extend past that
just wanted to be completely useless XD
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Uh, why would anyone take rules from 2,000 middle eastern book?
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As a whole Religion teaches that you should treat other people with respect the problem is people that use it to ethically protect their bigotry towards minorities. There are some good things that can come of religion you shouldn't let one line change the way you treat homosexuals.
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As a whole Religion teaches that you should treat other people with respect the problem is people that use it to ethically protect their bigotry towards minorities. There are some good things that can come of religion you shouldn't let one line change the way you treat homosexuals.
There is this ^ which I agree with. Pulling quotes out of the bible just to fit a situation that people don't agree with seems all kinds of wrong. Don't agree that minorities should have rights, find something that says that and just quote it.
All humans should have basic rights, and your sexuality is one of those rights. It is truly the civil rights movement of our generation.
Like I said earlier I'm Catholic, but there are many things I don't agree with that the church does, so its part of me, while at the same time I cannot agree with them denying basic rights, among other things, and I'm not gonna force somebody to live a lie.
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So APPARENTLY THESE TYPES OF THREADS ARE OKAY NOW K
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Even as an atheist, our basic morals are derived from religious views as what is wrong and what is right. Though, most people find homosexuality not an issue and it shouldn't be so long as we're humans. People are animals, other species have sexual intercourse with the same gender. Was it a possibility that the bible was attempting to separate us from being animals/savages? Who knows...? I just know that I find no issue with homosexuality as a whole and I haven't been religious since I was 10..
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So APPARENTLY THESE TYPES OF THREADS ARE OKAY NOW K
So long as John doesnt make it, then when it gets closed make 5 more meme2
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If you people can act mature in these debates, IE not doing what Irish did. Respect one another and their beliefs, if you don't have anything to contribute with do not post.
If you do not heed my call I will be forced to lock and such.
As for the debate at hand, there is a myriad of different rules that no1 follows anymore. For example you can not wear mixed fabrics
Leviticus 19:19 reads, "You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together."
Or you may never let a man without testicles into church.
Deuteronomy 23:1 reads (this is the God's Word translation, which spells it out better), "A man whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off may never join the assembly of the Lord."
Also if your wife helps you by grabbing the attackers groin you shall cut her hand off
"If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity."
one more from Levictus though (out of many many stupid ones)
No eating shellfish
"But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you."
So in my view, this rule seems just as far fetched as the others considering the new testament mainly preaches love and acceptance.
Also if you choose to ignore the other rules of the old testament then at least ignore this one too and heed the main rule, love thy neighbor.
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The bible is a poor example of true christianity, just lift all the jesus stuff out of the bible and put that into a book. The condeming of homosexuality was only in the old testament, which was mixed with Jesus' teachings by the roman catholic church during the dark ages, and basically made a fool out of christ. Christ is ok for the msot part, but the rest of the bible is filled with hate and violence.
Yup, the bible contradicts itself in the first chapters of the book of Genesis. I cba going to quote it but theres two stories of creation? Why? I dont know, there cant be two worlds can there? Each story has different things such as Adam and Eve being created at the same time from dust, the other stating Adam was made first and Eve from Adam's rib.
Just one example, which is why the bible is an unreliable source for anything really. But yeah its like 'no homo or hell for yhoo' in the old testament, in modern day we know that catholics still say no homo, but less extreme ways of religion accepts homosexual acts.
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I honestly don't see what is wrong with homosexuality.
If two people love each other, then what of it the gender? One of the main arguments that Christians have against it is that it "violates the sanctity of marriage." Britney Spears, Katy Perry, Kim Kardashian? I realize that these are all celeb marriages, but aren't gays singled out for being different? Not everyone is a celeb, maybe we should ban them from marrying too, and force them to be ashamed of what they are. I feel like marriage isn't more than a title to hold over your friends' heads and have people pay attention to you with fancy rings and expensive weddings.
I also don't understand how it could be an "abomination," if two people are willing to put time and effort into such a thing. The only abomination is how people treat homosexuals. Call them f*ggot, qu*er, ect., spitting on them at school, hurting them to the point where they are afraid to even leave the house, and in worst cases, simply driving them to suicide or killing them themselves. The things STRAIGHT people put on the victim's Facebooks, what they say at Church towards them, how their family is affected by "this one little problem." Making children, teens, adults, even, feel like they aren't welcome on this Earth, that we would be better off "without their kind." AIDS is a gay disease, "Gods hate f*gs," ect.. THAT reaction to how someone is BORN, is a disgrace, and an abomination.
A child's viewpoint branches out of the things that their parents teach them, or how they act around the child. And society is a helping hand in molding the viewpoint. Some children are raised by people with the idea that homosexuals are the Devil's making, some are raised to ignore the "problem," and some are raised that it isn't a problem, nor a choice. To them, it isn't anything, but how that child was born. But regardless of how they were raised, what society says, what a book says, that person is entitled to THEIR OWN opinion. It should NOT be based on what they hear, read, or even see from a few people of that group. It should be based from interacting with a large number of a the group, going to events, taking the time to see homosexuals as another HUMAN BEING and NOT an abomination.
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Religion is a fickle thing. And a jealous master. Careful with it.
Sodom and Gomorrah? (Why the heck are these 2 cities in the spell check?) Yeah, it was looked upon as over excess, going beyond civilized actions.
Here is Cadaver's opinion: It is not my place to judge (judge not, lest ye shall be judged) and simply put, I think there may be a genetic, or environmental cause.
So, whatever boats your float.
As for marriage, why should only the straight people be miserable?
As for gays, I have no issue. Heck, the more gay men there are, the better chances for me with the women. Less competition.
Oh, and remember: NO SEXISM RULE APPLIES TO THE FORUM. SEE THE RULES, THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO POST. Homophobia is sexism. So, no bashing each other.
Cadaver
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So gay people getting married "violates the sanctity of marriage" but when the divorce rate is over 50% that surely doesn't violate it and then what about the married people that cheat? that beat their spouses? that doesn't violate that either right?
Gay people should have FULL rights, not force them to be second class citizens because of who they are. The things is it will probably be a while until the older generation is gone, just like the civil rights movement. Basic human rights for all will not be stopped, merely slowed down.
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Homophobia is sexism.
Well.. it's a form of discrimination, which should be included in the rules as an FYI.
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Homophobia is sexism.
Well.. it's a form of discrimination, which should be included in the rules as an FYI.
What do you think the admins are going off of when we say "no sexism/racism/homophobic speech?"
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Why should anyone care what other people do with their lives? If it isn't hurting anyone, why do we need media coverage and crazy old men telling us we should kill those who live their lives this way?
It's because we let them. We let people tell us hateful things and teach more children to hate. The media like Faux News keeps on teaching to the less educated adult section, while we have the parents forcing their children to partake in going to their place of worship that they probably don't want to go to.
Then the country families that haven't had a lot of outside contact in history find that we can communicate with all people from across the world, and are shocked that people are different.
The parents sneer at two gay men, and the child asks why. The parent cleverly tells them how it is wrong and they will be punished. If the child is very religious already, they will take it in. If the child is still bright and open-minded to everything, they will be confused as to why two people receive hate when they are clearly just enjoying their life.
From my own experiences
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Well first off (I'll keep this one short so you can read it> EDIT: NEVERMIND LOL); I'm not completely atheist as I believe in the possibility of God. I just do not agree with any religious text nor do I believe in taking the texts literally. Using the stories of the bibles as guidelines for your morals is one thing; but taking it literally is another.
Not to mention it was written so many years ago, and times were much different then. There was already tons of homosexuality before the times of the bible; as depicted in Greek/Roman/other works of art. Later on as polytheism died out, most the monotheistic religions adapted anti-gay standpoints. Sadly homosexuality never died out; it continued living on and people were punished for it over and over.
Muslim religion forbids anal sex(not sure if between two men or just in general), but doesn't forbid gayness altogether. Christianity/Catholic texts say the famous "One man shall not lay with another man; for it is an abomination"; and hell if you wanted to get extra literal, it just means you shouldn't lie next to them. Sex is okay though. Regardless there are still thousands of gay Christians/Catholics out there who are trying to keep their hearts with God, and are just hoping that he'll still love them.
So basically homosexuality has always existed, the Gods didn't care, then God did, and people who were gay were gay anyway, or living in extreme unhappiness and denial hoping to get passage to heaven. I'm almost certain that the bible and other texts were written by humans though, and were subject to additional rules made by those humans. Homosexuality probably didn't exist too much around those people at the time and it was a general rule; gays were probably treated like witches.
I highly doubt God wanted us to overrule "Love thy neighbor" when we find out people are gay. It is an abomination to God, and what happens to them is Gods business; not everyone elses. Spreading parades of hate around is counterproductive and more sinful than the single act of homosexuality. You're not doing anyone any justice, you are doing nothing but making people angry. Good job; if there is a God he's probably not the spiteful asshole the bible depicts him as, that was the fault of the humans that wrote it.
TLDR: People have been gay for centuries, the bible was written a long time ago by humans with old timey values, and to take the bible literally in this day and age is foolish. It has some good values and stories to follow as guidelines for your morals; but it's not a rule book. That's why there's separation of church and state. Stop worrying about other people and worry about yourself. Who cares if someones gay, bi or straight; if you choose to look at someone and judge them based on one detail, you need to rethink your morals. Idunno doode; homosexuality is cool though. If you don't like it cause you're straight, cool beans; don't be a dick about it. I may not like the football team you like but I'm not telling you to go to hell over it.
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Homophobia is sexism.
Well.. it's a form of discrimination, which should be included in the rules as an FYI.
What do you think the admins are going off of when we say "no sexism/racism/homophobic speech?"
Discrimination is more.. broad than that.
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This topic is just going to end like any other religious debate thread... We religious types are outnumbered. But anyway as a catholic I have NOTHING against homosexuality. Even my mother and father that are very strong catholics and they have nothing against homosexuality and even have many friends that are gay. But we all think the same on gay marriage even most of their gay friends think the same way. Marriage is between a man and a woman and any other way is wrong I think they can love eachother any other way but marriage is just not one of those ways.
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This topic is just going to end like any other religious debate thread... We religious types are outnumbered. But anyway as a catholic I have NOTHING against homosexuality. Even my mother and father that are very strong catholics and they have nothing against homosexuality and even have many friends that are gay. But we all think the same on gay marriage even most of their gay friends think the same way. Marriage is between a man and a woman and any other way is wrong I think they can love eachother any other way but marriage is just not one of those ways.
What about a civil union, same rights and all, just not marriage in name.
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This topic is just going to end like any other religious debate thread... We religious types are outnumbered. But anyway as a catholic I have NOTHING against homosexuality. Even my mother and father that are very strong catholics and they have nothing against homosexuality and even have many friends that are gay. But we all think the same on gay marriage even most of their gay friends think the same way. Marriage is between a man and a woman and any other way is wrong I think they can love eachother any other way but marriage is just not one of those ways.
What about a civil union, same rights and all, just not marriage in name.
I've always been under the impression that civil unions had less rights, more than just the name and security of marriage. This is what Google had to tell me: http://www.now.org/issues/marriage/marriage_unions.html
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What I don't get is why the people whom are against homosexuality are so concerned about something that is really none of their business to begin with. If two men or women want to have sex, let them, it's not your place to tell them what they can and cannot do because of an archaic belief system, which is also why I believe that Religion has no place in lawmaking because if one group dominates that section of our lives, there will be so many people being oppressed because someone from another religion or belief system decided to take his or her crusade to the next level, trying to pass laws against something that their religion tells them is wrong, not common sense.
I dislike how I hear many Christians, Catholics and the like saying that they are a religion of peace and understanding and acceptance, but all you ever hear about is how they hate gays, hate evolutionists, hate all of these people who don't agree with them.. Of course they are not all like that. Still a very loud group, no?
Also, I thought this may be informative (Circa late 2011)
(http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web05/2011/6/24/3/enhanced-buzz-31252-1308899044-21.jpg)
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What I don't get is why the people whom are against homosexuality are so concerned about something that is really none of their business to begin with. If two men or women want to have sex, let them, it's not your place to tell them what they can and cannot do because of an archaic belief system, which is also why I believe that Religion has no place in lawmaking because if one group dominates that section of our lives, there will be so many people being oppressed because someone from another religion or belief system decided to take his or her crusade to the next level, trying to pass laws against something that their religion tells them is wrong, not common sense.
I dislike how I hear many Christians, Catholics and the like saying that they are a religion of peace and understanding and acceptance, but all you ever hear about is how they hate gays, hate evolutionists, hate all of these people who don't agree with them.. Of course they are not all like that. Still a very loud group, no?
Also, I thought this may be informative (Circa late 2011)
This thread is actually about hearing what Christians have to say and what they think about accepting gays vs. what their religion and what they're supposed to believe. We're not here to discuss intolerance, you're in the wrong thread. We're not here saying we're intolerant. I think everyone who has posted here is fine with homosexuality. you kinda missed the point man...
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First crow that is what I mean by other ways im totally fine with that, and spadie what you have to realize is marriage between first cousins has been around since ancient times even between brothers and sisters I'm not sayin it's right... It's disgusting but it's been around for so long is now in modern day society considered to be wrong in most places while same sex marriage has always since ancient times been illeagle and considered an abomination by many.
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This thread is actually about hearing what Christians have to say and what they think about accepting gays vs. what their religion and what they're supposed to believe. We're not here to discuss intolerance, you're in the wrong thread. We're not here saying we're intolerant. I think everyone who has posted here is fine with homosexuality. you kinda missed the point man...
Nonreligious people can post too
I was wondering, what are some of you believers out there thinking concerning homosexuality?
Also this is directed more toward the religious individuals here, but atheists, if you have some good input i'd like to hear it :D
I gave input where I saw fit. My view as an Ignostic is live and let live. So yeah.
First crow that is what I mean by other ways im totally fine with that, and spadie what you have to realize is marriage between first cousins has been around since ancient times even between brothers and sisters I'm not sayin it's right... It's disgusting but it's been around for so long is now in modern day society considered to be wrong in most places while same sex marriage has always since ancient times been illeagle and considered an abomination by many.
Murdering people for being witches has been around a long time too. And so was racism, and on a related note, a white and black person having relations was unacceptable and viewed as an abomination. Same with women voting. Hell, the bible also says women were made to serve men.
''For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.''
''Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church''
I'm a dude. Women should, and do have the exact same rights as me. So do people of different colour. And so should the LGBT community.
Point is; all of these things have changed. People need to evolve, society needs to evolve, and religious groups need to stop oppressing people who don't agree with their beliefs.
Edit: And that's the view of a person of a different belief, which the original post asked for [''if you have some good input i'd like to hear it :D'']
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This topic is just going to end like any other religious debate thread... We religious types are outnumbered. But anyway as a catholic I have NOTHING against homosexuality. Even my mother and father that are very strong catholics and they have nothing against homosexuality and even have many friends that are gay. But we all think the same on gay marriage even most of their gay friends think the same way. Marriage is between a man and a woman and any other way is wrong I think they can love eachother any other way but marriage is just not one of those ways.
What about a civil union, same rights and all, just not marriage in name.
I've always been under the impression that civil unions had less rights, more than just the name and security of marriage. This is what Google had to tell me: http://www.now.org/issues/marriage/marriage_unions.html
Yes but I'm talking about making it the same. Its a good compromise, its not a "marriage" by terminology but if it gives the same exact rights as a marriage, then we should shoot for that.
@Spadie: Try not to paint one group with such a broad brush, not everybody has the same feelings about it just because they are Christian or Catholic or whatever. About the only people we can paint broadly is racists/trolls and their ilk.
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@Spadie: Try not to paint one group with such a broad brush, not everybody has the same feelings about it just because they are Christian or Catholic or whatever. About the only people we can paint broadly is racists/trolls and their ilk.
I dislike how I hear many Christians, Catholics and the like saying that they are a religion of peace and understanding and acceptance, but all you ever hear about is how they hate gays, hate evolutionists, hate all of these people who don't agree with them.. Of course they are not all like that. Still a very loud group, no?
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What I don't get is why the people whom are against homosexuality are so concerned about something that is really none of their business to begin with. If two men or women want to have sex, let them, it's not your place to tell them what they can and cannot do because of an archaic belief system, which is also why I believe that Religion has no place in lawmaking because if one group dominates that section of our lives, there will be so many people being oppressed because someone from another religion or belief system decided to take his or her crusade to the next level, trying to pass laws against something that their religion tells them is wrong, not common sense.
I dislike how I hear many Christians, Catholics and the like saying that they are a religion of peace and understanding and acceptance, but all you ever hear about is how they hate gays, hate evolutionists, hate all of these people who don't agree with them.. Of course they are not all like that. Still a very loud group, no?
Also, I thought this may be informative (Circa late 2011)
(http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web05/2011/6/24/3/enhanced-buzz-31252-1308899044-21.jpg)
Where'd you get this information? Last I saw the legal relation was Third cousin.
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Where'd you get this information? Last I saw the legal relation was Third cousin.
..It says right on there. Bottom left and right. And, white is prohibited, that strange greenish blue is where it's legal. So it may not be like that in your state
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Just looked back over the TN Marriage laws, yeah I was wrong. Ah well, disappointing.
ANYWHO. On topic. I see nothing wrong with it. Southern Baptist I am. I always say whatever floats your boat.
And the KJV says homosexuality is an abomination, the more modern bibles (Which are far more historically accurate) Says it is detestable.
On a political standpoint, We can't have our country fighting over petty social arguments when there are far more important fiscal and international issues. Americans need to be united, not separated. As Lincoln says, "A house divided, can not stand."
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@ Spadie -- look idk what your problem is but the bible says it catholics/Christians follow it. If you don't like it then ignore it. You are turning this thread into something entirely different. Bringing up the fact of Racism and that stuff that is totally different then marriage i know what your tyring to say about how society has changed but it hasnt totally on the first cousin thing. I think that many gay couples would be fine with just having the civic union and not having so called " Marriage " seeing how many just want the same rights as a man and women marriage where they get tax cuts etc. I have nothing against Homosexuality and NO ONE in this thread has said they do. So stop attacking religious followers.
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If you don't like it then ignore it.
You just summed up my entire argument! If religious people don't like it, they should ignore it! :)
And, Racism and homosexuality is the same concept in discriminating against someone whom is different from you.
Edit: ALSO!
I think that many gay couples would be fine with just having the civic union and not having so called " Marriage " seeing how many just want the same rights as a man and women marriage where they get tax cuts etc.
Marriage isn't defined as a religious thing. So people, regardless of their sexual orientation, should be able to get MARRIED and have a MARRIAGE with all of the same rights. Plus there's been protests by the LGBT community about calling it a civil union, stating that two people don't ask the other to be in a civil union if they love eachother and want to be together. They ask the other if they want to marry them, same as everyone else. So I don't think they'd be fine with it..
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Marriage stopped being any sort of religious when it was adopted as the official way of two people being together in the way being married means and when it is used officially by the state, which is why you can get married in the court house and you don't need to be in a church.
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Marriage stopped being any sort of religious when it was adopted as the official way of two people being together in the way being married means and when it is used officially by the state, which is why you can get married in the court house and you don't need to be in a church.
+1
And if it were a religious thing, there'd be no reason for athiests and people of separate beliefs to get married. But as they can, and as they do, gay folk should be allowed to as well.
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I agree with Corey, there is no reason to call marriage between a same sex couple anything but what it is marriage.
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I find that homosexuality to be good and, the better of us all as a society. Learn to enjoy life rather than make it worse for others.
Only the people that are lonely or miserable view it as an abomination. Those that are unsure usually follow their parents, friends peers, etc. It's not just religion that plays a role to an individual's view. People would use certain reasons or philosophy to just their reasoning of why "we are against your sexual orientation".
In all honesty, it's time to modernize our way of thinking and living. The dark ages are gone.
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Gods a big boy, I don't think he'll cry if one dude decides he loves another dude. I don't think he'll cry if a woman decides to love another woman.
Also
I'm not gonna lie, the bible is pretty fucked up.
This is EXACTLY the crap that will get the thread locked. Not what i was asking for at all. Respect others' religions also.
Also, good input, Doc, that's a really good point
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Everything changes after Jesus.
The Pentateuch is invalid!
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Everything changes after Jesus.
The Pentateuch is invalid!
The Old Testaments preached things that were later corrected in the New. Regardless, the fact of the matter is that we're far from the only species that has sex with the same gender.
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This debate is likely to be skewed to the side of pro-acceptance of homosexuals.
Of course these are the genuine opinions of those who have already contributed, but it is worth considering that by the the rules of the forum (no sexism, discrimination, etc.) it's much less likely we'll be receiving the viewpoint of anyone who is against homosexuality.
Because of the rule, any actual religious homophobes would be largely reluctant to share their views (if the rule hasn't driven those sorts of thinkers away in the first place), meaning we're only hearing the point of view of those who accept homosexuality.
I just thought I'd point that out. While this is an interesting discussion, there isn't much room for varied opinions.
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Personally, I'm happy coexisting with those who have views opposite of mine, whether it's sexuality, religion, politics, etc. While I'm not an atheist, I don't quite fit into one religion or another. I believe in a higher power, sentient or not, and I believe there's something beyond death than just nothing. (I feel enticed to delve deeper into my religious views, but I realize that's off-topic and potentially offensive. :P)
I see little need to make the business of other people, and their preferred sex, my business. Really, people should be able to think/do what they want, so long as they aren't shoving those ideas down the throats of others, or harming other people in the process of this.
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Asked what my coworker thought about this (since he is pretty mouthy and likes certain words), and he said he actually didn't care. Just as long as they don't wave their dicks in his face. I've honestly only met one guy who was anti-gay, and he was a major backwoods douche. I feel like the only people that are against homosexuality are the ones that are scared of change, refusing to lose their standpoint when they have the power to hold it firmly, or have been taught that it's wrong.
If someone is against homosexuals, I would love to hear their viewpoint. Shouldn't fear repercussions if they use their words right. I would really like a good debate here, this is completely 1-sided.
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Asked what my coworker thought about this (since he is pretty mouthy and likes certain words), and he said he actually didn't care. Just as long as they don't wave their dicks in his face. I've honestly only met one guy who was anti-gay, and he was a major backwoods douche. I feel like the only people that are against homosexuality are the ones that are scared of change, refusing to lose their standpoint when they have the power to hold it firmly, or have been taught that it's wrong.
If someone is against homosexuals, I would love to hear their viewpoint. Shouldn't fear repercussions if they use their words right. I would really like a good debate here, this is completely 1-sided.
You can see the religious viewpoint for being against homosexuality, to be honest they believe and fairly can do that sex is a means to create life, thus why they believe that using protection is also wrong. Any method of sex which is not for creating life is morally wrong, and that the pleasure out of having sex should only be a necessary sin, a 'side effect' if you will.
I'm agnostic, so I can really understand both sides of the argument, plus I did enough of this at school and A levels before I went to university.
Argument balanced... ish.
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However, it's a medieval viewpoint.
Women were only seen as a way to produce; they were not allowed to enjoy it, and to do so was blasphemy. This idea stayed, but was challenged by both genders. A lot of people would cheat, would write erotic stories (which were banned, but secretly handed out), and be jailed or even killed for liking sex.
It's evolved over time, going from punishable to accepted. People simply "look down" on them or call them names, or just ignore it overall. But teens are still popping out babies, people are cheating left and right, and even those who are so against pleasure sex/cheating, cheat. The same people that are the ones so against gays having rights, because they think it's against THEIR OWN PERSONAL PREFERENCE. However, they commit acts that violate their precious "rules," too.
I honestly think that people should get over themselves. If you cannot stand by what you preach, then you should not be allowed to say your piece, or try to convince others that the other stance is evil. People like sex, people sometimes like the same gender, and we've got beyond enough babies on this Earth.
What I can't stand at all is how anything anti-baby is wrong, yet having the child, knowing you can't handle the responsibility, being forced to keep it, abusing them, killing them.. That's alright? Or simply abandoning them and letting them rot in the orphanage. Of course, gays cannot have children, but that doesn't stop them from adopting, yes? One of the main reasons why I will always support gays is that they can give a home to children who were abandoned or abused by their birth parents; people who are preparing for such a task, people who are actually going to care. Not people who "accidentally" became parents, did not parent the child, and let them become one of the fucks we see strutting their shit around on the street. Or teens, who decided they wanted a baby. Or the people who are just literally fucking psychotic. Some do slip through the cracks, but mostly I feel that gay couples raise the most open-minded children, who aren't going to slut around and judge people for what they are. And kuddos to that.
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Yeah living around Detroit, reading in the news constantly about how parents don't care at all about their children or how its something like over 60% of them live in 1 parent houses, really makes the argument "the child will be confused living with a gay couple" invalid. There are bad parents and good parents, so we should focus on the bad, instead of just one group that WANTS to adopt children. Adoption alone doesn't make parents good, but just to deny it because of their orientation is wrong.
good story. One of my ex coworkers had one kid, could barely take care of her on this minimum wage job (his baby momma lived in another state). He decided to go cheat on one of his friends wife, knocks her up and they get divorced. So now he had 2 kids to take care of, and a baby momma as well, well that didn't work, he lost both his kids. Moral of the story, don't have kids if you can't even take care of yourself!
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Yeah living around Detroit, reading in the news constantly about how parents don't care at all about their children or how its something like over 60% of them live in 1 parent houses, really makes the argument "the child will be confused living with a gay couple" invalid. There are bad parents and good parents, so we should focus on the bad, instead of just one group that WANTS to adopt children. Adoption alone doesn't make parents good, but just to deny it because of their orientation is wrong.
good story. One of my ex coworkers had one kid, could barely take care of her on this minimum wage job (his baby momma lived in another state). He decided to go cheat on one of his friends wife, knocks her up and they get divorced. So now he had 2 kids to take care of, and a baby momma as well, well that didn't work, he lost both his kids. Moral of the story, don't have kids if you can't even take care of yourself!
Yeah, I would rather have a kid be adopted by a gay couple who love the child like their own than an inept parent whom just doesn't care about the child or abuses it (which you see MUCH more often than ever should be)
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Gods a big boy, I don't think he'll cry if one dude decides he loves another dude. I don't think he'll cry if a woman decides to love another woman.
Also
This is EXACTLY the crap that will get the thread locked. Not what i was asking for at all. Respect others' religions also.
Also, good input, Doc, that's a really good point
It seems you missed my main point
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 “If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.â€
Well for the third or so of CG that believes that the Bible is truth, some of the things you said can be pretty flippin offensive. It's better to look at the other point of view to make sure you're not offending anyone before you post... Although i do respect and don't put down your opinion that the Bible is "fucked up", it would be much better to word things in such a way that does not bring unwanted offense to any party or individual, such as myself.
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Yeah you guys better check yourself before you say something again just because his is a forum topic about opinions doesn't mean you can shit all over our beliefs.
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Requesting lock pls
Like I know how this thread would turn out
I don't blame one side, I blame both. It's his opinion, just like it is your opinion. You hope others respect your own opinions and then you attack someone for giving their own.
LOCK PLS
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Saying the bible is quote fucked up unquote is attacking peoples belief. Look, I would say we all agree that everybody has the right to do what they want, but don't forget that includes to practice whatever religion you want. This is suppose to be a discussion, not a bashfest on religious people, because you cannot paint a group with a broadbrush just because some people in the group are more vocal and/or extremist. The same can be said about atheists, there are some that just full on attack what others believe.
Like I've said before, basic human rights, something that every person born should have.
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I give this thread one more chance, next time it is a lock.
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Religious debate; the ONLY place where we can't shit on other peoples beliefs in CG. Say one petty thing that might piss someone off and it's all over. Call someone a fucking retard with a brain tumor over something else; completely fine.. makes sense I guess, we only want to avoid hurting peoples religious feelings, not the rest of them.
Regardless of your beliefs, the fact that religious people use one quote to start anti-gay riots; then completely ignore another one that's pro-rape is ridiculous. His point was not to take the quote on gay people literally; as you shouldn't with most other quotes from the bible.
You are on one of your last strikes when it comes to debates. and making hypothetical discussion about it is worse; and that's why discussion on it's forbidden. Technically since this thread is open we should go ham and talk mad shit on it anyway; it's not like there are rules against being a douchebag(no enforced rules at least). Just rules against talking about religion; which everyone else has done already.
Also remember; pillz believes a god may exist out there, but religion overall is just silly now; most people get it. They still believe they just don't care to make a fight out of it; lol it's not like I hate religious people, my whole family is religious, I just don't care for the shit it justifies sometimes.
Lol im on my last strike debate wise? wat?
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Religious debate; the ONLY place where we can't shit on other peoples beliefs in CG. Say one petty thing that might piss someone off and it's all over. Call someone a fucking retard with a brain tumor over something else; completely fine.. makes sense I guess, we only want to avoid hurting peoples religious feelings, not the rest of them.
Regardless of your beliefs, the fact that religious people use one quote to start anti-gay riots; then completely ignore another one that's pro-rape is ridiculous. His point was not to take the quote on gay people literally; as you shouldn't with most other quotes from the bible.
and making hypothetical discussion about it is worse; and that's why discussion on it's forbidden. Technically since this thread is open we should go ham and talk mad shit on it anyway; it's not like there are rules against being a douchebag(no enforced rules at least). Just rules against talking about religion; which everyone else has done already.
+1.
He was pointing out something really fucked up in a passage, and then you guys went apeshit (Not you, Pillz). Some of the things the bible says is really disgusting and wrong by almost anyones standards. Like Pillz said, how can religious groups use some passages to further their cause, claiming the bible is absolute truth, while ignoring others completely when it suits them. For example, love thy neighbour. What if that neighbour is gay? Hm?!
I held the door for a lady once going into a store. She told me as a feminist, she doesn't need a man to do things for her. I asked her if she was a christian as well, she said yes. When I asked her what she thought of the bible saying that women were made to serve men, she didn't have shit to say. Blows my mind discofrog
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Fact is religion comes down to belief, there is no direct rights or wrongs. Science has not 100% proven that religion is false, they simply can't yet. So saying it is retarded is a personal view and as with religion you don't want their beliefs shoved down your throat.
This statement can go both ways "Just as I do not wish for some1 to force something down my mouth I do not wish for some1 to force religion upon me", the other side of it is that those who are religious should be allowed to say "Just as I do not wish for some1 to force something down my mouth I do not wish for some1 to forcefully feed me the reasons why I am wrong".
99% of the time some1 gets called a retard on these forums it is due to the fact that they are talking bs and/or acting like idiots. Alternatively it is on something that is way less serious, and gets treated as such.
You fight for the rights for gays to get married or have every right of freedom, then why are you so much of a bigot that you can not allow religious people the same rights of freedom?
Anyways Pillz has ended the thread, and proven that CG is not mature enough to again try religious debates.