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Offline Echochrome4

Computer CPU
« on: September 21, 2013, 02:19:10 PM »
Help Request Subject:

Computer CPU

Specific people needed to read this:

Anyone who knows about computers

Summarize help request in one sentence:

I don't know a lot about computer building and the one thing that is confusing me is, what is the right CPU to buy.  I'm probably going to go with an Intel i5 4th generation CPU, but what I'm confused about is what is the difference between all of the different ones. 

Spoiler for Hidden:
Intel Core i5-4430   3.0GHz   4   84W   No Data   
$184.97

Intel Core i5-4440   3.1GHz   4   84W   No Data   
$188.98

Intel Core i5-4570   3.2GHz   4   84W   No Data   
$189.99

Intel Core i5-4570S   2.9GHz   4   65W   No Data   
$194.28

Intel Core i5-4670   3.4GHz   4   84W   No Data   
$214.99

Intel Core i5-4670K   3.4GHz   4   84W   No Data   
$223.98

Importance level(low,medium,high):

It isn't a problem, just something I need some help with understanding, so low importance



Offline Fluffalupagus

Re: Computer CPU
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2013, 02:51:44 PM »
GHz just means the speed it runs at. A lot of people think of RPM in a car, the faster it spins the faster it can go, so the more GHz you have, the faster your computer can handle. (This can be Overclocked anyway, which is tied into watts, I'll explain in a second.)

Watts is just power usage. No explanation needed.

Overclocking is gonna bring up your GHz at the cost of increased wattage, and some slight danger to integrity. (Especially if you don't know what you're doing.)

Some CPUs are built better for OCing, like the Intel Core i5-4670K is specifically built better than the Intel Core i5-4670 for OCing, the microprocessor can handle it better. So OCing a Intel Core i5-4670K is gonna be a lot more successful.

Basically, it just depends on what you want from the CPU/what you're willing to spend extra moneyz on... :3

(If the stock GHz is higher, the higher you can OC it. You can technically make a 4570S run like a 4670, and it'll have the same GHz and Wattage, but it's somewhat dangerous for the chip. And any higher will be even more so, but the 4670s will be able to go even higher than that without so much danger to integrity.)

If you're gonna go stock without OCing, go as high as you can afford. OCing can save you some money but if you don't know how to do it, don't attempt it. I've screwed 2 processors doing it and it's not a pleasant experience. :3 (I've long since given up OCing processors, but some people know how to do it just right and it amazed me the performance they get out of these damn things...)

Conjoint Gaming [Game On]

Re: Computer CPU
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2013, 02:51:44 PM »

Offline IsYn Wooley

Re: Computer CPU
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2013, 01:43:24 PM »
If the stock GHz is higher, the higher you can OC it.

No! This is wrong and I will try and explain why.

For the purpose of making it simple we will look at the Core i7 900 series.

They had

Intel® Core™ i7-980 Processor
Select    Intel® Coreâ„¢ i7-960 Processor
(8M Cache, 3.20 GHz, 4.80 GT/s Intel® QPI)    Launched    Q4'09    130 W    TRAY: $294.00    
Select    Intel® Coreâ„¢ i7-950 Processor
(8M Cache, 3.06 GHz, 4.80 GT/s Intel® QPI)    Launched    Q2'09    130 W    TRAY: $294.00    
Select    Intel® Coreâ„¢ i7-940 Processor
(8M Cache, 2.93 GHz, 4.80 GT/s Intel® QPI)    Launched    Q4'08    130 W    BOX : $555.00    
Select    Intel® Coreâ„¢ i7-930 Processor
(8M Cache, 2.80 GHz, 4.80 GT/s Intel® QPI)    Launched    Q1'10    130 W    TRAY: $294.00    
Select    Intel® Coreâ„¢ i7-920 Processor
(8M Cache, 2.66 GHz, 4.80 GT/s Intel® QPI)

These chips are actually ALL THE SAME CHIP!

So say Intel designs the  940 processor and then starts pumping out thousands of them.

Due to the way these things are made they are not all equal.

So a 940 then gets tested with stock voltages and they increase these to each level set to test what the thermal output of each one is.

Based on a bunch of other variables they might decide that this 940 they made is just not up to snuff to handle being pushed at 2.93 Ghz with such and such a voltage so they bin this chip as a 920 @ 2.66Ghz

They might make the next chip and it is GOLDEN! it can fair exceed the previous processor specs of the 920. They make it a  940 it can run with stock specs at 2.93Ghz.

So basically what I am trying to say is that it is misinformation that a higher clock speed chip is going to clock higher than a slower speed chip. Cause in actuality the chip is already slightly overclocked in stock form.

Cuz they are all the same damn chip, they might have tweaks or different batches. For instance the Stepping. When the i7s came out there had g0 and b0 stepping the b0s ran a lot hotter than a g0. Thus Overclockers were all over getting a g0 so they could overclock them higher. Heat is one of the greatest limiting factors in overclocking.

So think of it this way

you have a room with a 10 feet ceiling

You have two men standing in this room.

One guy is 5'3" and the other guy is 6' 4"

You give them both stilts of 4' increase

The first guy is standing right at the ceiling, the other guy has to give up since his head would be through the roof.

I mean yes when you are talking processors it is possible for the 6 foot guy to go a bit past that ceiling, but it won't be much further, unless you need a shit ton of cooling to achieve it.  Which is counterproductive to the fact you just spent 1k dollars on the 6 foot man and only $300 on the 5 foot man. When we talk Technology you always want to get the best Price:performance
A slower chip OC'd properly will give you that.

There are a lot of ins and outs of this concept, but the general rule always stays the same. If you don;t have the money to burn on a $1k processor then just buy the base level chip or mid range and overclock it.

you could get an i7 920 which was stock a 2.66 to get up to 3.4-3.6 on air. For a fraction of the cost. You could even push 3.8 on even more superior cooling.

Now with the new processors like the Sandy Bridge and Ivy and Haswell, yes the K series is a new monster. It basically gives you the ability to overclock in the same ways we are used to with older chips. The non K series chips have some of their dials locked down so people cannot tweak them to their liking, but in reality overclocking is still possible regardless.

I have been overclocking since my first build. An AMD 2400+ I will tell you so long as you have a decent air cooler on it you can make it scream like the best of them.

It just makes more sense to me to buy the lesser of two chips and push it to the limits or above the limits of the more expensive chips.

It has never failed me and I have been doing this awhile. Also read up heavily on any forum you can in regards to your specific chip and mobo if you get lost.

Another thing to remember is stress testing is key to ensuring longevity. You want to make sure you have a stable overclock.

I think that overclocking today is loads easier than it was in the past. (Looking at the days when we would draw with a pencil on our CPUs to unlock L2)

Hope this helps,
-Wooley






Rated R for Retarded
I'm the devil.




I have an opinion...and I will express said opinion...Deal with it!

Offline Pillz

Re: Computer CPU
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2013, 01:51:23 PM »
Also make sure everything on your computer is compatible when upgrading.
This whole thing is a travesty.

For starters, Pillz is obviously the sexiest.

Offline Echochrome4

Re: Computer CPU
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2013, 12:16:56 AM »
Well this will be a total new build so I have checked to make sure that everything works together.  Also thanks for furthering my knowledge on CPU's, later when I get the cash to buy the parts and get time to build the computer, I'm gonna need help with over clocking as I have really no idea how to do it.  ????

So do you have any recommendations on CPU coolers?  I have been looking at the Corsair hydro series as I like the look and what I have read about it, but I want others opinions. 



Offline IsYn Wooley

Re: Computer CPU
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2013, 02:01:10 PM »
They are great for beginners, but I hate them since they are a closed loop system and the pimp resides on the block.

I have not had too much experience with Corsair water cooling products, but I had a lot of other brands which has the same type of cooling solution where the impeller resides right over the CPU. Once the fluid is gone the impeller locks up and melts and then your CPU over heats and shuts down.

I built my Water loop using a XSPC Rasa RX360 kit.

I think they have a bigger and better kit now with a better waterblock. I think it cost me about $300 total on top of the cost of build itself.

Yes...That is a 360 Rad with 6 fans hanging off the back of my case...and I can still pick it up by the handle without damaging the back of it.  discofrog

http://www.techreaction.net/forums/water/5471-rx360-rad-cpu-gpu-gpu-2.html#post27115



I have since upgraded the Waterblock to a Koolance 380i



At that time I upgraded the block since I knew I would be upgrading my CPU soon. Also my fucking pump died on me after 2 years of constant running.

I can't be that mad though since it is a very low end up that is built into my reservoir.  I shelled out the money and bought yet another one of the same model, just a different revision.



When I am all moved in and back up and running I think I will take some new pictures.

I am putting in a new Mobo/CPU/Another GTX 670 and another SSD

Hopefully it won't clutter my tiny Mid sized case too much.

Anyway if you have questions the answers are just a search in goggle away and if you need real time help I am sure we can assist.

hth,
-Wooley



Rated R for Retarded
I'm the devil.




I have an opinion...and I will express said opinion...Deal with it!

Conjoint Gaming [Game On]

Re: Computer CPU
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2013, 02:01:10 PM »

 


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