Conjoint Gaming [Game On]
CG Administration Section => Admin Department => Admin Abuse => Topic started by: andyoh0123 on August 19, 2013, 06:41:34 PM
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Name of player reporting abuse: Andyoh
Server: ttt
Admin who is suspected of the abuse: Äante the Äaemon
In which server did the abuse occur?: ttt
What occurred, what did the abuse consist of: rdm, refuse to slay-self, targeting
8/15 (RDM, Refuse to slay) On mw2 terminal, I was playing on Deeeen's account (friend IRL), and just killed a traitor. Then Dante kills me by mistake and would not slay himself when I asked him to. ((Will get screenshots when Deeeen sends them to me))
8/19 (Targeting) On rooftops I was holding the electiric axe when me and Herpderp collided and I damaged Herpderp for 50 damage and was then killed. Dante continuously asked Herpderp in chat if he wanted me slain and how much damage I did to Herpderp.
8/19 (RDM) On roy the ship, as innocent, I hit the health station continuously intending to break it. Herpderp hit the station a few times then stopped. After I destroyed it, I was killed and Herpderp was too. Dante argues that simply hitting the station is killable.
What time and day did it happen (put down your time zone too): 8/15 (time unknown) 8/19 (2-4 pm)
Please link any evidence (videos, screen shots, etc.):
mw2 terminal incident will be posted when Deeeen sends screenshots.
Rooftops Incident:
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt79/andyoh0123/cg/vendetta_zps2a4829ae.png
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt79/andyoh0123/cg/veeeendatta_zpsb21ff7c1.png
The way Herpderp and I collided was accidental and occurred in a similar doorway and manner that Dante uses the axe here: http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt79/andyoh0123/cg/hypocrisyinthecolonies_zps2ac1f43a.jpg
Roy the ship incident:
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt79/andyoh0123/cg/hitit_zpsa80d7d39.png
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt79/andyoh0123/cg/hitititlikeumeanit_zps883d1882.png
Additional comments:
I just want to say I hate to create another abuse thread especially for the same admin and I do not mean to target Dante in anyway, but almost a month later he still seems to lack general understanding of the rules. Also, I will post the mw2 terminal incident when Deeeen is able to send me the screenshots.
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HEREWEGOAGAIN
lollolllollolol ikr
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Sometimes I don't agree with the way Dante admins so I can see where you're coming from, but in my opinion your evidence could be better. From my perspective, it seems like you two are attacking each other back and forth despite both of you saying otherwise.
In the Health Station incident, Dante seems to be trying to defend himself instead of saying he was wrong, which I don't agree with.
Herp wasn't replying to Dante on Rooftops, so I can see why he kept asking, and I don't think your proof really says "he was targeting me because he doesn't like me" (or whatever your reason may be) except for the part where he says "I don't trust you". Like I said, this might be because you two have a bias against each other.
What happened on Terminal happens to other players (non-admins) and if the player asks for a slay, they usually get it. When Deeeen posts his proof, I'll comment on this more, but I think that Dante was wrong not to slay himself if from my experience people get slayed regularly.
HEREWEGOAGAIN
lollolllollolol ikr
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More proof:
He muted me for correcting him:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/631915450053349324/829D55BCF0A1A8D9D4F26336A36F70F03DFB5716/
Heres him practically disrespecting me and supporting Kael for what he said:
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/631915450053343073/99AEEC6B697EF1BD19B33528DAD3F6221C75159E/
He also killed me for me hitting the health station twice, and did not slay himself (it's not a valid reason to kill)
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You both hit the health station enough times to where it was destroyed. Both having participated in destroying the health station, should be killed, because you both assigned damage to it multiple times and it WAS destroyed.
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You both hit the health station enough times to where it was destroyed. Both having participated in destroying the health station, should be killed, because you both assigned damage to it multiple times and it WAS destroyed.
I hit it 2-3 times while andy was hitting it, 5 seconds later he hit the rest and it broke. Dante stated "We should kill him because he hit the health station" Which is not a valid reason to kill, I asked him to be slain and he never was.
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You both hit the health station enough times to where it was destroyed. Both having participated in destroying the health station, should be killed, because you both assigned damage to it multiple times and it WAS destroyed.
I hit it 2-3 times while andy was hitting it, 5 seconds later he hit the rest and it broke. Dante stated "We should kill him because he hit the health station" Which is not a valid reason to kill, I asked him to be slain and he never was.
I was there, and you are stretching the truth quite a bit. I shot at you because it was destroyed a second after you stopped hitting it. You hit more than three times sir. And anyone here knows that if I'm defending dante then something is the fuck up.
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You both hit the health station enough times to where it was destroyed. Both having participated in destroying the health station, should be killed, because you both assigned damage to it multiple times and it WAS destroyed.
I hit it 2-3 times while andy was hitting it, 5 seconds later he hit the rest and it broke. Dante stated "We should kill him because he hit the health station" Which is not a valid reason to kill, I asked him to be slain and he never was.
I was there, and you are stretching the truth quite a bit. I shot at you because it was destroyed a second after you stopped hitting it. You hit more than three times sir. And anyone here knows that if I'm defending dante then something is the fuck up.
No way I hit it more then 3 times because I know. You clearly heard Andy hitting the rest. I walked away as it was being destroyed. You can't kill someone for hitting it. If I can't prove that I hit it only a couple times then lets leave it as this: You can't kill for hitting it, but you can kill for destroying it.
Andy was the only one that was able to be killed for it
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My Input.
MW2 Terminal: I will wait for evidence.
Rooftops: It is Dante's job to ask the damage and to as if a slay should be applied, but the logs should say this although with the ax I don't know if it shows up. And with Dante holding the axe in the doorway, was he doing it purposefully, or walking by it and you screenshotted?
Roy: I could see how helping break a health station could get you killed, although if Herp had walked away before it was broken, then he shouldn't be killed. But why even break it? IMO thats just trolling.
With Herps mute: Herp you have done this to me sometimes. You say something to try and correct us. Cool. Then you say it five times until your acknowledged. Not Cool. Remember we know the rules and are the admins, although we can forget occasional and thanks for trying to help. In that screenshot it does look like Dante was favoring Kael and targeting you.
Im going to wait on the MW2 Evidence to post my final thoughts, but I am dissapointed in multiple people right now.
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Forgot to add after rooftops, I was RDM'd twice on roy the ship and I didn't report it and Dante did not ask anything (which is fine). To me it just seems like he was eager to slay me.
Rooftops: It is Dante's job to ask the damage and to as if a slay should be applied, but the logs should say this although with the ax I don't know if it shows up. And with Dante holding the axe in the doorway, was he doing it purposefully, or walking by it and you screenshotted?
Thanks for the input and Dante was just door blocking with the axe, which is perfectly fine I agree, but he shouldn't be eager to slay me when he does the same thing.
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8/19 (Targeting) On rooftops I was holding the electiric axe when me and Herpderp collided and I damaged Herpderp for 50 damage and was then killed. Dante continuously asked Herpderp in chat if he wanted me slain and how much damage I did to Herpderp.
8/19 (RDM) On roy the ship, as innocent, I hit the health station continuously intending to break it. Herpderp hit the station a few times then stopped. After I destroyed it, I was killed and Herpderp was too. Dante argues that simply hitting the station is killable.
Im fairly sure destroying the health station is killable, and asking herp if he wanted you slain is in no way "targeting" he was just doing his job.
EDIT: Although Dante should be consistent with asking people if they want the rdmer slain without the victim asking.
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I'd like to intervene with some nice shiny demo's. The scoreboard might be broken, but you can check the console for Status, I believe. Also, if anyone has any comments/questions about the Demo's, PM please; I'm uploading these demos here so people know exactly what was happening in chat and voice, nothing else.
The debacle (this is for roy the ship) starts at about 40k ticks/pings/picks idk in. The second one is roughly right as it starts. If you wanna skip to that, I would welcome you.
http://filesmelt.com/dl/DanteAndyHerp2.dem
http://filesmelt.com/dl/DanteAndyHerp.dem
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Name of player reporting abuse: Andyoh
Server: ttt
Admin who is suspected of the abuse: Äante the Äaemon
In which server did the abuse occur?: ttt
What occurred, what did the abuse consist of: rdm, refuse to slay-self, targeting
8/15 (RDM, Refuse to slay) On mw2 terminal, I was playing on Deeeen's account (friend IRL), and just killed a traitor. Then Dante kills me by mistake and would not slay himself when I asked him to. ((Will get screenshots when Deeeen sends them to me))
8/19 (Targeting) On rooftops I was holding the electiric axe when me and Herpderp collided and I damaged Herpderp for 50 damage and was then killed. Dante continuously asked Herpderp in chat if he wanted me slain and how much damage I did to Herpderp.
8/19 (RDM) On roy the ship, as innocent, I hit the health station continuously intending to break it. Herpderp hit the station a few times then stopped. After I destroyed it, I was killed and Herpderp was too. Dante argues that simply hitting the station is killable.
What time and day did it happen (put down your time zone too): 8/15 (time unknown) 8/19 (2-4 pm)
Please link any evidence (videos, screen shots, etc.):
mw2 terminal incident will be posted when Deeeen sends screenshots.
Rooftops Incident:
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt79/andyoh0123/cg/vendetta_zps2a4829ae.png
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt79/andyoh0123/cg/veeeendatta_zpsb21ff7c1.png
The way Herpderp and I collided was accidental and occurred in a similar doorway and manner that Dante uses the axe here: http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt79/andyoh0123/cg/hypocrisyinthecolonies_zps2ac1f43a.jpg
Roy the ship incident:
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt79/andyoh0123/cg/hitit_zpsa80d7d39.png
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt79/andyoh0123/cg/hitititlikeumeanit_zps883d1882.png
Additional comments:
I just want to say I hate to create another abuse thread especially for the same admin and I do not mean to target Dante in anyway, but almost a month later he still seems to lack general understanding of the rules. Also, I will post the mw2 terminal incident when Deeeen is able to send me the screenshots.
8/15: No Idea what you are talking about.
8/19: Thats my job, you hit him with the axe as far as I know, so I asked him, he wasnt responding so I didnt know if he was lagging or not, so I said nvm at the end of the round.
8/19: You were both attacking it I see you two crowbarring it and it gets destroyed so you both get shot. Herpderp didn't walk away he kept attacking it. I wasnt arguing about attacking it being kill able, I was saying you two both Crowbarred it, way more than 3 times, till it was destroyed.
More proof:
He muted me for correcting him:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/631915450053349324/829D55BCF0A1A8D9D4F26336A36F70F03DFB5716/
Heres him practically disrespecting me and supporting Kael for what he said:
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/631915450053343073/99AEEC6B697EF1BD19B33528DAD3F6221C75159E/
He also killed me for me hitting the health station twice, and did not slay himself (it's not a valid reason to kill)
I muted you for Spamming, I warned you to stop and you kept doing it. And I didnt kill you for crowbaring it twice, I killed you for destroying it with Andyoh you both kept crowbaring it till it was destroyed. Me and kwaurtz both saw you do it and killed you for it.
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About the continuous hitting the health station...
You both hit the health station enough times to where it was destroyed. Both having participated in destroying the health station, should be killed, because you both assigned damage to it multiple times and it WAS destroyed.
Roy: I could see how helping break a health station could get you killed, although if Herp had walked away before it was broken, then he shouldn't be killed. But why even break it? IMO thats just trolling.
I agree with the points presented above.
I strongly think there should be something added about this in the rules. There is absolutely NO purpose to hitting/damaging the health station other than to troll as an innocent or to ease upcoming traitorous attacks (possible exceptions if it's 1v1 between an inno and a traitor). Damaging the health station should have a consequence other than just mere "mark him/her as suspicious", seeing as some proven innocents like being trolling clowns as well (something that I do not feel should be welcome in our server.) A light post-round punishment if done by a proven innocent or an in-round damage infliction if by a traitor/not proven innocent, or something.
Damaging the Health Station as an innocent = Trolling and nothing else, and there's no need for trolling.
Otherwise I'm surprised this particular issue (the health station one) is being tossed against Dante in a forum thread at such a force. As a higher admin, if I was there to witness him and other people killing you for damaging an INNOCENT FRIENDLY item as an INNOCENT to troll OTHER PLAYERS, sure technically that's not killable, but I would've let it go. Hell even if I was the troll in question hitting the health station, I wouldn't care.
Just because it's not technically specified that you shouldn't do one thing doesn't mean you should be a dick to other players. That health station incident should not be what demotes Dante, or even be debated any further in my opinion.
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Forgot to add after rooftops, I was RDM'd twice on roy the ship and I didn't report it and Dante did not ask anything (which is fine). To me it just seems like he was eager to slay me.
Rooftops: It is Dante's job to ask the damage and to as if a slay should be applied, but the logs should say this although with the ax I don't know if it shows up. And with Dante holding the axe in the doorway, was he doing it purposefully, or walking by it and you screenshotted?
Thanks for the input and Dante was just door blocking with the axe, which is perfectly fine I agree, but he shouldn't be eager to slay me when he does the same thing.
Merged comments. Please do not double post.
I didn't see this.
For the first one I didn't see you report and for Herpderp other people were saying you hit him with it for no reason. Someone complained about you to me, where you said nothing.
If your takling about where I killed someone with the axe It wasnt purposefully I was walking into the room and the dude just, waltsed into the axe, I even moved it away when I saw him. He walked into it of his own free will. Or if your talking about when I took the axe and put it in the door way, it was because I was hoping the axe would scare people off so me and Kaelthax could camp there the whole round.
Andyoh can you have your brother Deen post the pic, I really don't know what you are talking about.
Also did he actually ask for a slay on me? Because if no one reports it and I cant hear it, im not going to do anything about it.
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I might have a demo of the second incident, (During rooftops, I mean.) Do you know what time EST that occurred? You can check the actual time you took the screenshot in.. It might be different numbers, but this is where my SS folder is, so it probably is for you.
C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\userdata\33220014\760\remote\4000\screenshots
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I might have a demo of the second incident, (During rooftops, I mean.) Do you know what time EST that occurred? You can check the actual time you took the screenshot in.. It might be different numbers, but this is where my SS folder is, so it probably is for you.
C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\userdata\33220014\760\remote\4000\screenshots
I think Rooftops was between 10 and 1.
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First off, thank you death for the demos. They helped.
Second, I'm here to exmain evidence and give my opinion. I've looked at all that was posted so far.
1The way Herpderp and I collided was accidental and occurred in a similar doorway and manner that Dante uses the axe here: http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt79/andyoh0123/cg/hypocrisyinthecolonies_zps2ac1f43a.jpg
2Roy the ship incident:
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt79/andyoh0123/cg/hitit_zpsa80d7d39.png
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt79/andyoh0123/cg/hitititlikeumeanit_zps883d1882.png
1 -> That is no against the rules. He's not chasing anyone with it.
2 -> So if an admin sees what he thinks is rdm, he should ignore it? He was doing what he was supposed to do. Maybe if you stopped taking shit like this personal and try to get people to go against him he wouldn't feel the need to ensure you follow the rules. He may be more forgiving. The person damaged DOES NOT HAVE TO COMPLAIN. That is a common courtesy the admins extend to players.
More proof:
1He muted me for correcting him:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/631915450053349324/829D55BCF0A1A8D9D4F26336A36F70F03DFB5716/
2Heres him practically disrespecting me and supporting Kael for what he said:
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/631915450053343073/99AEEC6B697EF1BD19B33528DAD3F6221C75159E/
He also killed me for me hitting the health station twice, and did not slay himself (it's not a valid reason to kill)
1 -> Herp, he did ask you to stop multiple times. See "DanteAndyHerp2.dem"
2 -> Same demo, he was fustrated because you wouldn't drop it after multiple warnings.
1Rooftops Incident:
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt79/andyoh0123/cg/vendetta_zps2a4829ae.png
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt79/andyoh0123/cg/veeeendatta_zpsb21ff7c1.png
Also: Hitting the Health Station is T baiting (in my view), unless told to do so. It is doing something that the final out come is traitorous. He had every right to kill you AND herp. Most people are just nice and don't.
Conclusion: No abuse found. Don't T-bait and whine when you get capped for it.
Dante, well done. You lost your temper once but you held it longer than I would :-P. Be careful because I see you filling in a lot of undefined rules, I just happen to agree with this one.
Dante AND Death, since this was not written please seek out Cortez's opinion before enforcing rules. I think it should be considered T baiting.
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About the continuous hitting the health station...
You both hit the health station enough times to where it was destroyed. Both having participated in destroying the health station, should be killed, because you both assigned damage to it multiple times and it WAS destroyed.
Roy: I could see how helping break a health station could get you killed, although if Herp had walked away before it was broken, then he shouldn't be killed. But why even break it? IMO thats just trolling.
I agree with the points presented above.
I strongly think there should be something added about this in the rules. There is absolutely NO purpose to hitting/damaging the health station other than to troll as an innocent or to ease upcoming traitorous attacks (possible exceptions if it's 1v1 between an inno and a traitor). Damaging the health station should have a consequence other than just mere "mark him/her as suspicious", seeing as some proven innocents like being trolling clowns as well (something that I do not feel should be welcome in our server.) A light post-round punishment if done by a proven innocent or an in-round damage infliction if by a traitor/not proven innocent, or something.
Damaging the Health Station as an innocent = Trolling and nothing else, and there's no need for trolling.
Otherwise I'm surprised this particular issue (the health station one) is being tossed against Dante in a forum thread at such a force. As a higher admin, if I was there to witness him and other people killing you for damaging an INNOCENT FRIENDLY item as an INNOCENT to troll OTHER PLAYERS, sure technically that's not killable, but I would've let it go. Hell even if I was the troll in question hitting the health station, I wouldn't care.
Just because it's not technically specified that you shouldn't do one thing doesn't mean you should be a dick to other players. That health station incident should not be what demotes Dante, or even be debated any further in my opinion.
THIS.
If you participate in destroying a health station, your taking the chance to get shot. Dont do it the whine about it.
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Roy: I could see how helping break a health station could get you killed, although if Herp had walked away before it was broken, then he shouldn't be killed. But why even break it? IMO thats just trolling.
I've noticed him doing this a lot. Just the other day, he waltzed up to the tester on 67th and smashed it, thinking he was immune because he was a detective. Then a confused inno shot him, then another shot him, and it became an RDM fest. I'm saying this to you Herp: stop it. Stop initiating RDM.
My apologizes, I was out:
I think the tester ruins the fun of finding out who the traitors are, so I destroyed it for one round. Detectives should be immune anyway.
Roy:
If Andy was hitting it and not stopping, me hitting it a couple of times would have done nothing - Andy was going to break it anyways.
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Roy: I could see how helping break a health station could get you killed, although if Herp had walked away before it was broken, then he shouldn't be killed. But why even break it? IMO thats just trolling.
I've noticed him doing this a lot. Just the other day, he waltzed up to the tester on 67th and smashed it, thinking he was immune because he was a detective. Then a confused inno shot him, then another shot him, and it became an RDM fest. I'm saying this to you Herp: stop it. Stop initiating RDM.
My apologizes, I was out:
I think the tester ruins the fun of finding out who the traitors are, so I destroyed it for one round. Detectives should be immune anyway.
Roy:
If Andy was hitting it and not stopping, me hitting it a couple of times would have done nothing - Andy was going to break it anyways.
Jesus herp, stop hitting health stations, and if worst comes to worst, hit the tester any time that you are NOT a detective, break the thing pre round if anytime at all. Please do that for me? Just break it pre round, and never health?
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Roy: I could see how helping break a health station could get you killed, although if Herp had walked away before it was broken, then he shouldn't be killed. But why even break it? IMO thats just trolling.
I've noticed him doing this a lot. Just the other day, he waltzed up to the tester on 67th and smashed it, thinking he was immune because he was a detective. Then a confused inno shot him, then another shot him, and it became an RDM fest. I'm saying this to you Herp: stop it. Stop initiating RDM.
My apologizes, I was out:
I think the tester ruins the fun of finding out who the traitors are, so I destroyed it for one round. Detectives should be immune anyway.
Roy:
If Andy was hitting it and not stopping, me hitting it a couple of times would have done nothing - Andy was going to break it anyways.
Jesus herp, stop hitting health stations, and if worst comes to worst, hit the tester any time that you are NOT a detective, break the thing pre round if anytime at all. Please do that for me? Just break it pre round, and never health?
k, didn't know destroying stuff was a big deal. won't happen again?
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Dude, I urge you not too. I know you've been trying to be on good behavior. I've noticed. Just... Try to stay on good standing.
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Dude, I urge you not too. I know you've been trying to be on good behavior. I've noticed. Just... Try to stay on good standing.
I swear not to crowbar any people, healthstations, or t-tester, t-bait in anyway, or troll.
k?
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I think Towersheep just basically ended this one pretty well.
I've been gone the entire day, so I have not seen all the evidence myself, but I do see one thing:
I see somebody crying wolf over petty things. Don't forget how that story ended. Bringing up admin abuse multiple times with lack of hard evidence, or very weak evidence makes me think that you have it out for somebody more then actually making sure admins stay within their boundaries. Add in the fact that you were the one to break the health station, then complain about it, makes me think you still don't know the rules of the server.
*sigh* since it appears people want to troll anyway they can. I suggest that any attempt to destroy a T tester/health station should be changed to result in it being a killable action. Put it in black and white, and if people complain, then its right there.
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Just wanna say me and Dante talked on steam and we apologized and talked it out maturely and professionally, the rooftops issue has been resolved.
As for anyone interested in the mw2 incident screenshot: http://gyazo.com/cbb0fc321ff200a45bd41ab415b0b46f.png
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Just wanna say me and Dante talked on steam and we apologized and talked it out maturely and professionally, the rooftops issue has been resolved.
As for anyone interested in the mw2 incident screenshot: http://gyazo.com/cbb0fc321ff200a45bd41ab415b0b46f.png
Which again begs the question why you didn't do that first and instead made this thread almost immediately.
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Just wanna say me and Dante talked on steam and we apologized and talked it out maturely and professionally, the rooftops issue has been resolved.
As for anyone interested in the mw2 incident screenshot: http://gyazo.com/cbb0fc321ff200a45bd41ab415b0b46f.png
Dante and I also talked, this time calmly, and we decided it was considered trolling and I told him I would stop..
So now what to do with this thread:
Dante is no longer considered abusing
and we should add to the rules that hitting the health station/t tester is traitorous. at the time of this thread being posted I was just going by the rules, and saying it was legal.
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Well that pretty much resolved itself. Old Crow, Towersheep and John pretty much said it all. I will be making an edit to the rules to prevent this confusion with the healthstation. Admin abuse not found, thread locked.